[nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, refused to put service dog on floor

Shanna Stichler slstich at gmail.com
Thu Sep 12 18:05:54 UTC 2013 

I would absolutely wait for a later flight. I have shipped a dog before, long story, but the experience traumatized the dog. She could never fly again after that without getting completely stressed. 

Shanna and Diamond


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 10, 2013, at 10:14 AM, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:

> Hm... I think I would try to get a later flight. I think it would be super stressful on Mitzi to be with the pets, since she is trained to be with me and is used to that. I wouldn't want to add to her stress on a long excursion. Also, I would want her with me in case of emergency, etc. If she's with me, I know who is handling her and how. Tossing her in a crate with the pets for the baggage handlers (or whoever) to fling around... I wouldn't be comfortable with that.
> 
> Tami
> 
> On 09/09/2013 09:15 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
>> If you were in the position where, somehow, your dog could not fit on the
>> plane, would you put your dog with the other pets or try to get a later
>> flight? Just curious what people think about this one.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ginger Kutsch
>> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 8:27 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane,refused to
>> put service dog on floor
>> 
>> Tami,
>> Pasted below is an excerpt from the DOT's Office of Aviation Enforcement &
>> Proceedings publication   called Answers to Frequently Asked Questions
>> Concerning Air Travel of People with Disabilities Under the Amended Air
>> Carrier Access Act Regulation. I've included several questions that might be
>> of interest along with those questions that specifically address where a
>> service animal may be seated on the air craft.
>> 
>> 
>> Section 382.81 - Seating Accommodations
>> 
>> 24.    Can an airline require passengers with a disability accompanied by
>> service animals to sit in the bulkhead row?
>> 
>> Answer: No.  As stated in 382.81 (c), a passenger with a disability
>> traveling with a service animal must be provided, as the passenger requests,
>> either a bulkhead seat or a seat other than a bulkhead seat that would
>> accommodate the service animal subject to applicable safety regulations.  If
>> the passenger chooses a seat other than a bulkhead seat, the carrier is not
>> required to permit the passenger to specify a particular seat of his or her
>> choosing (e.g., "7C") that he or she would not be entitled to under the
>> carrier's normal seat-selection procedures, except to the extent necessary
>> to accommodate the animal as required by sections 382.117(b) and (c) of the
>> rule.
>> 
>> 25.    May a carrier exclude a passenger with a disability seeking to
>> travel with a service animal from his or her specific assigned seat or
>> require that passenger to sit in a particular seat in the cabin?
>> 
>> Answer:  No, except to comply with FAA or applicable foreign government
>> safety regulations.  A service animal may be placed at the feet of a person
>> with a disability at any bulkhead seat or in any other seat as long as when
>> the animal is seated/placed/curled up on the floor, no part of the animal
>> extends into the main aisle(s) of the aircraft and the service animal is not
>> at an emergency exit row seat.
>> 
>> 
>> Section 382.87 - Other Seating Accommodations
>> 
>> 26.    Must a passenger needing more than one seat to accommodate his/her
>> disability pay for the additional seat(s)?
>> 
>> Answer: A person who requires more than one seat for any reason (e.g.,
>> because of obesity or a disability) can be required to pay for all of the
>> seats used.
>> 
>> Section 382.117 - Service Animals
>> 
>> 33.    What type of documentation are carriers permitted to require as a
>> condition of permitting a service animal to travel on a flight segment
>> scheduled to take 8 hours or more?
>> 
>> Answer: The carrier may require documentation that the animal will not need
>> to relieve itself during the expected duration of the flight or that the
>> animal can relieve itself in a way that does not create a health or
>> sanitation issue on the flight.  Examples of documentation a passenger could
>> provide include either a written statement from a veterinarian, a signed
>> statement from the passenger containing the procedures that he/she employs
>> to prevent the animal from having to relieve itself (e.g., limitation on the
>> provision of food and water) and an assurance that the use of these
>> procedures has prevented the animal from relieving itself for a period
>> similar to that of the planned duration of the flight, or a signed statement
>> with photographs or other illustrations of the animal's ability to relieve
>> itself without posing a health or sanitation problem (e.g., the use of a
>> passenger-provided absorbent plastic-backed pad).
>> 
>> 34.    May carriers require documentation that an animal accompanying a
>> passenger with a disability is a service animal?
>> 
>> Answer: Generally no, except in limited circumstances as discussed below.
>> Unless a foreign carrier has received a conflict of laws waiver permitting
>> the carrier to impose such a requirement, or the carrier finds that the
>> verbal assurances of the passenger are not credible and there are no other
>> indications of the animal's status such as a harness, tag or vest, the
>> airline may not require such documentation.  Carriers are permitted to
>> require documentation for emotional support animals and psychiatric service
>> animals.
>> 
>> 35.    What conditions may carriers impose on the transport of service
>> dogs?
>> 
>> Answer: Carriers must transport all service dogs (e.g., guide dogs, seizure
>> alert dogs, etc.) as long as safety and animal health requirements are met.
>> 
>> 
>> 36.    Must carriers accept emotional support and psychiatric support
>> animals in the aircraft cabin?
>> 
>> Answer:  U.S. carriers must accept any emotional support or psychiatric
>> service animal in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable safety and
>> animal health requirements and ensure that its foreign code share partners
>> do the same on covered flights with respect to passengers traveling under
>> the U.S. carrier's code.  Foreign carriers must accept any emotional support
>> or psychiatric service dog in the aircraft cabin consistent with applicable
>> safety and animal health requirements on covered flights.
>> 
>> 37.    What should airline personnel do if a passenger with a disability is
>> accompanied in the airplane cabin by a service animal that does not fit in
>> the space immediately in front of the passenger and there is no other seat
>> in the cabin with sufficient space to safely accommodate the animal?
>> 
>> Answer: If a service animal does not fit in the space immediately in front
>> of the accompanying passenger with a disability and there is no other seat
>> with sufficient space to safely accommodate the animal and its partner
>> (i.e., user), there are several options to consider for accommodating the
>> service animal in the cabin in the same class of service.  The carrier
>> should speak with other passengers to find a passenger in an adjacent seat
>> who is willing to share foot space with the animal, or a passenger in a seat
>> adjacent to a location where the service animal can be accommodated (e.g.,
>> in the space behind the last row of seats) or adjacent to an empty seat, who
>> is willing to exchange seats with the service animal's partner.  As noted in
>> the preamble to our rule, there are probably no circumstances in which the
>> purchase of a second seat would be necessary to accommodate the service
>> animal.  If a class of service on a flight is totally filled, there would
>> not be any seat available for purchase.  If the class of service had even
>> one middle seat unoccupied, the passenger with a service animal could be
>> seated next to the vacant seat.  It is likely that even a large animal
>> (e.g., Great Dane) could use some of the floor space of the vacant seat,
>> making any further purchase by the passenger unnecessary.  Only if there is
>> no alternative available to enable the passenger to travel with the service
>> animal in the cabin on that flight should the carrier offer options such as
>> transporting the service animal in the cargo hold or transportation on a
>> later flight with more room.  When transportation on a later flight is
>> offered, carriers are strongly encouraged, but not required by Part 382, to
>> allow any passenger who wishes to rebook on a different flight to the same
>> destination and on the same airline to do so at the same fare.
>> 
>> 38.    If a carrier determines that a service animal cannot accompany a
>> passenger with a disability in the cabin due to a behavior problem on the
>> part of the animal that may result in a direct threat to the health or
>> safety of others or a fundamental alteration in service, what should the
>> carrier do?
>> 
>> Answer: The carrier should first permit the passenger to try available means
>> of mitigating the problem (e.g., muzzling a barking service dog) before
>> deciding to exclude the service animal from the cabin.  If those means are
>> not successful, the carrier may follow its company policy on pets because
>> the animal has shown that it has not been successfully trained to function
>> as a service animal in public settings.   Whenever the airline decides not
>> to accept an animal for travel as a service animal, the airline must provide
>> the passenger a written explanation of its decision within 10 calendar days
>> of the incident.
>> 
>> 39.     If a carrier determines that a service animal cannot accompany a
>> disabled passenger in the cabin and the passenger refuses to allow the
>> animal to be transported in the cargo hold and requests instead to be
>> rebooked on a later flight, must the carrier do so without additional
>> charge?
>> 
>> Answer: If an airline cannot safely transport a service animal (e.g.,
>> because it is too large to fit anywhere in the cabin), a carrier must follow
>> its nondiscriminatory contract of carriage provisions applicable to the
>> passenger's fare in determining how to best re-accommodate such passengers.
>> Although not required by Part 382, carriers are strongly encouraged to allow
>> any such passengers who wish to rebook on a different flight to the same
>> destination and on the same airline to do so at the same fare.
>> 
>> 
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 9:10 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, refused
>> to put service dog on floor
>> 
>> I think on this one the airline was in the right.
>> 
>> Wouldn't this be covered by the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA)?
>> 
>> Just for grins, can any frequent flyers or legal eagles comment on whether
>> there is anything specific in the ACAA about having the service dog in the
>> seat?
>> 
>> Unsecured, the dog would pose a direct threat to the health and safety of
>> others in the event of turbulence or worse. Bouncing around the cabin
>> wouldn't do the dog any good, either. /shudder/ If the dog were secured in
>> the seat, is there a rule against that under the ACAA?
>> 
>> Just curious! No plans to put my dog in the seat, although she has mentioned
>> on at least one flight that she thought it was the best place for her. I let
>> her go on thinking that from the floor under the seat. /lol/
>> 
>> Tami
>> 
>> On 09/06/2013 05:58 PM, Margo Downey and Arrow wrote:
>>> Oh, I think U S air did the right thing.
>>> 
>>> Margoa nd Arrow
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 8:40 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane,
>>> refused to put service dog on floor
>>> 
>>> Oh, I think he landed in the media because of his interpretation. How
>>> many people would actually try to have the dog ride in the seat? Maybe
>>> more than I think, but either those folk don't know the rules, he
>>> wasn't all together, or he was banking on the ignorance of the
>>> employees. That would not be too hard to bank on either. He just lost
>>> out on that one. I'd say he came out pretty well though with a free
>>> night in the hotel  as a result of his activities.
>>> 
>>> xo
>>> 
>>> On Sep 6, 2013, at 7:19 PM, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm going to state my honest opinion here and say the airline was in
>>>> the right here. I agree that the dog should have been on the floor of
>>>> the aircraft. It doesn't seem right that this passenger is using his
>>>> disability and service to this country as an excuse for having the
>>>> dog on a seat rather than the floor. In fact, he isn't being denied
>>>> entry to the plane, but the airline is merely asking him to obey the
>>>> guidelines issued by the same act this gentleman claims, and quite
>>>> accurately so, gives him the right to have the dog. Just the fact
>>>> that he speaks untruths so loudly landed him a spot in the media,
>>>> which is quite disturbing.
>>>> Aleeha and Dallas
>>>> 
>>>> On 9/6/13, Ginger Kutsch <GingerKutsch at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Disabled veteran kicked off US Airways plane, refused to put service
>>>>> dog on floor
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sep 05, 2013 8:46 PM EDT
>>>>> 
>>>>> By FOX 10 News - Staff Report
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/23348254/2013/09/05/disabled-war-v
>>>>> e
>>>>> teran-k
>>>>> icked-off-us-airways-plane
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A newly released video has put valley-based US Airways in a tough
>>> position.
>>>>> A Vietnam vet with a service dog got into a heated discussion with a
>>>>> flight attendant and then was escorted off the plane for security
>>> reasons.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Video: "No! I'd appreciate if you'd get the hell off this ground and
>>>>> get where we're going!"
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Emotions ran high onboard a US Airways flight from Phoenix to El
>>>>> Paso. This video has gone viral.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "I'm sorry folks but I've earned the right to have this service
>>>>> animal because of my service to this country in Vietnam. I am 100
>>>>> percent disabled, I have a service dog because of it and everyone
>>>>> has to obey the ADA laws except this airline! So I'm sorry but I'm
>>>>> not budging!"
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This passenger wants his service dog, a golden retriever, to remain
>>>>> seated on the empty seat next to him.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A US Airways spokesman said the rules are pretty clear. Service
>>>>> animals are to remain on the ground and under the seat in front of you.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "If the aircraft were to experience something in the air and it
>>>>> needs to evacuate you don't want that animal to be in the way of
>>>>> people getting off the aircraft," says US Airways spokesman John
>> McDonald.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> McDonald says there was also the safety of other passengers at risk
>> here.
>>>>> The man told airport personnel he suffered from PTSD. They worried
>>>>> he would get even more upset in the air.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> "We had had conversations to the customer trying to explain what was
>>>>> going on. And the captain was involved when the flight attendant
>>>>> wasn't able to resolve it and in fact, many of our captains are
>>>>> former military people, this is an issue we are very familiar with
>>>>> and unfortunately this gentleman's reaction was what resulted in the
>>> incident."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Saturday flight was delayed. US Airways says it handled the
>>>>> situation as best it could.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Airport police cited the man with trespassing and booked him on
>>>>> another flight.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> There wasn't another flight out on Saturday, so the man was rebooked
>>>>> on Sunday flight. US Airways covered the cost for a hotel room for
>>>>> the
>>> night.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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