[nagdu] training methods of schools

[Stephanie Mitchell]

This is a really interesting discussion. It would be interesting to hear from some one who has done training in the 28 days on exactly what was involved. 
Steph


----- Original Message -----
From: Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Date: Monday, September 16, 2013 2:08 am
Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools

>
>
> Nicole,
> 
> I'm not the only owner-trainer I know who has succeeded with 
> non-correction based training methods, so I tend to roll my eyes when 
> the pros at the schools insist that just can't be done. However, I think 
> you are right that in the kennel and school setting in which those pros 
> work, it wouldn't be so doable to use what I think of as more "pure 
> applied operant conditioning." Also, it would be much more difficult to 
> teach to the handlers, since the negative reinforcement with the applied 
> OC requires some psychology and analysis on a case by case basis. In 
> other words, to remove the reward from unwanted behavior or to go to the 
> next level and make it unrewarding, you have to figure out what the 
> reward is for each behavior and diagnose motivations and, well, stuff. 
> Once you're used to thinking this way, it is easier than it sounds and 
> can be very effective. But with guide dogs, we're talking very 
> intelligent, strong-willed, confident individuals. So when you get into 
> a conflict of wills, winning the battle takes some mental effort and 
> patience. Trying to teach someone that for a large set of complex 
> behaviors in 28 days would be a bit much to ask, I think. Corrections 
> work for negative reinforcement, especially since that is how the dogs 
> are trained.
> 
> Of course, a key reason I plan to OT again is that I want to be a purist 
> about the pure positive training methods. I really do think it creates a 
> better partnership -- by my definition of better according to my 
> personal preference. With just one dog to train, I can spend all day 
> every day being an OC snob about it. /smile/ Occasionally, I do try to 
> imagine working under conditions like what the pro trainers do, with 
> several dogs to train on budget and on time... That would be more difficult!
> 
> Interesting about the collars. I hadn't heard about that before. How are 
> they different?
> 
> Tami
> 
> On 09/14/2013 10:14 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
> > I think that most schools use a mixture of positive rewards and correction.
> > I have never done extensive training of dogs, so I cannot say, but I think
> > that it would be harder to use just positive methods when there is a large
> > number of dogs and a lot of temptation . The trainers know how to use
> > correction in a way that is not harmful, and a dog that needs too much
> > correction is usually one who gets career changed. To the best of my
> > knowledge, GDB uses both. Also, on a related note, GDB uses different
> > training collars than they used to, which I think is a good change. I have
> > also seen a few more GDB alums with these collars instead of the choke
> > chains.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora
> > Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 7:05 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: [nagdu] training methods of schools
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > How do the different training methods differ between schools? Which schools
> > have begun to use more positive methods of training such as food rewards and
> > clicker training? I'm sorry this question is so vague; however, I am truely
> > curious. It is difficult to determine this kind of information from a
> > training program's website so I thought it would be beneficial to ask those
> > with firsthand experience. Any information would be appreciated.
> >
> > Danielle
> >
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> >
> >
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> 
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