[nagdu] training methods of schools

minh ha minh.ha927 at gmail.com
Mon Sep 16 12:16:41 UTC 2013


Yes, I went to GDB this past June. It sounds like when you went, you
got a more thorough coverage of clicker training than I did.

On 9/15/13, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Please remind me, but you went to GDB? When I went in July of 2007, we had
> a
> recorded lecture about clicker training for the night before, a short live
> talk, an exercise where we taught the dog to find the chair while we were
> still on campus, and finally an exercise while out on route where we had a
> choice of one of three items, which I cannot remember what the items were,
> which we could teach our dogs to target. Lexia still knows clicker training
> really well. I often don't use it, though, because she gets so excited
> about
> it.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 4:11 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] training methods of schools
>
> I agree about the clicker training not given as much time and importance as
> it should during training. My instructor only gave me a forty five minute
> lesson where we targeted Viva to a random piece of equipment in the gym. It
> was a really cool demonstration of what the clicker could do, but she
> didn't
> show or tell me how versatile clicker training can be when working with a
> guide. When I got home, I got kind of creative and just experimented
> withdifferent things on my own. I used the clicker to teach Viva to heel
> right up against my leg because I didn't like the 45 degree angle that GDB
> teaches their dogs. It just throws me off my line of direction.
>
> I think when people hear leash corrections, they think at the first sign of
> a mistake, boom, comes the leash correction, but GDB, and I think other
> schools teach you to use the verbal corrections before using the leash.
> When
> Viva starts acting up, I use my stern voice to indicate to her that if she
> doesn't stop, then she's going to get into bigger trouble. I hold her at
> really high standards so I only give her one chance to do it before I use
> the leash to correct. After all, when I'm standing on a busy campus path, I
> don't want to stand there and beg her to continue working. As long as the
> guide and handler understand the parameters of their relationship, I don't
> think leash corrections are necessary all the time, but it's there to
> reinforce it. I equate it with a parent really yelling at you when you get
> into mischief or something.
>
> Minh
>
> On 9/15/13, Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nicole, does GDB use the martingale check collar on their dogs? In
>> case you don't know what that is, the martingale check collar is an
>> adjustable strip of nylon connected by a loop of chain. It can also be
>> connected by another loop of nylon, but when I attended Guiding Eyes,
>> the instructors issued the collars connected by the loop of chain.
>> They told us these were the collars to use when our dogs were not
>> working. Personally, I don't like any kind of slip collar or slip
>> lead, so I use the martingale check when I work my golden guy.
>> Danielle, there are still schools that do not use treat training, but
>> that does not mean they do not use positive methods. The GDF grads can
>> correct me if I'm wrong, but GDF is one of those schools that uses
>> verbal and physical praise, rather than food rewards. This is
>> perfectly fine. But I understand what you mean, because schools that
>> use reward-based, rather than correction-based, training methods are
>> likely to involve treat training.
>> Also, I'd like to clarify that clicker training does not necessarily
>> mean there is a clicker involved in a school's training practices.
>> Clicker training refers to the use of an event marker to signal that a
>> desired behavior or a sequence of desired behaviors has been
>> performed. For instance, whale and dolphin trainers are clicker
>> trainers, even though they use whistles for the water mammals rather
>> than clickers. Sometimes, when I am training dogs, or working with my
>> own guide, I don't use the clicker, but instead the words "yes!" and
>> "perfect!" It's still clicker training.
>> When I attended GEB, they only spent two days on the clicker. Not
>> enough, in my opinion. People leave guide dog schools believing that
>> the clicker is only some kind of targeting tool, and that could not be
>> further from the truth. I have just noticed that guide dog school
>> grads gravitate toward the leash correction as a problem solver,
>> rather than the clicker. The clicker can be used to teach anything
>> from basic obedience and house manners, to advanced behaviors, to
>> guide work. The clicker signals to the dog or animal that they have
>> done something right, and the reward, whether it's a treat, toy,
>> marking, or digging, serves as positive reinforcement for the
>> behavior, increasing the likelihood that the behavior will occur
>> again.
>> I understand that guide dog schools only have so much time to cover so
>> many things, but they really don't do the clicker justice. I'm sure
>> they use it frequently during formal guide training, but they don't
>> incorporate it enough into the training of future guide dog handlers.
>> Nothing wrong with asking grads how the different schools train the
>> dogs, but if you're looking for a program that uses reward-based
>> methods during puppy-raising and formal guide training, email
>> different schools' training departments and ask some open-ended
>> questions. Ask how puppy-raisers are taught to teach pups house
>> manners. How do they minimize inappropriate behaviors? How do they
>> reinforce good behaviors? How are the guide dogs trained to stop at
>> curbs? How are the guide dogs trained to stop at stairs? These are
>> just a few of the questions that would help you gain insight into the
>> training methods of a guide dog program.
>> And just for the record, I am not a person who rejects the use of a
>> leash correction. I prefer to use verbal corrections and body language
>> over a leash correction. But in those rare instances when my dog is
>> not paying attention to me or his work after I've signaled to him,
>> then I have no problem dulling out a wake-up call.
>>
>> --
>> Raven
>>
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>
>
> --
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their
> dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>
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-- 
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence




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