[nagdu] Why Labradors?

Tue Sep 17 20:47:02 UTC 2013

Filix is a black lab.  He is quite laid back.  However, he gallops like a
horse when he is running/ He is a wonderful dog.
Way back in the sixties I got my first guide dog.  She was a Rhodesian
Ridgeback.  She was a wonderful dog.  The only thing was that they have very
short hair, and she froze here in Michigan in the Winter.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 9:18 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?

Hi Raven.  You'd need a lab like my Benny, then.  He's extremely quiet.  I 
say he has a stuffed animal switch.  He lies down, flips the switch, and 
turns himself into a stuffed animal.  He only dances around for a few 
minutes a day.  I've never met another dog like him.
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?

> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I wanted
> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into things
> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or growling--that's
> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up to
> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above are
> big contributing factors.
>
>
> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Debbie,
>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced, with
>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5.  Huck still has some, but he 
>> never
>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working and going
>> places.
>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I love
>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!!  They usually enjoy their work, too, and
>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie Cole
>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>
>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy.  they 
>> just
>> never seem to grow up.  We need to baby proof our house.  No socks or
>> objects left where she can get to them.  Coffee Tables must be cleaned.
>> Remote controls up high.
>>
>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings after her
>> 2nd
>> to last walk.  (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the 
>> computer
>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and running 
>> around
>> the living room.  this means let's play.  she's 5.
>> Still a puppy.  So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with her or
>> throw her kongs.  Until she's tired.
>>
>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
>>
>> Debbie & Leone
>>
>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that to her
>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now she's
>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she used
>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house than
>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid steady
>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca has.
>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from home
>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that kind
>>> of schedule.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>> Tolliver
>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>
>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration on and
>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited and
>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners when
>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because there
>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know that
>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the handler to
>>> maintain consistent control of their  dog than it rests on the dog to
>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as well
>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are giving
>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably fade
>>> with age.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like the
>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black lab,
>>>> I'd
>>> challenge
>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent easy
>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with great
>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for instance.
>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my feet,
>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So, I
>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done, where to
>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
>>> that
>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca picked
>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for driveways
>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as we
>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could trip
>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She would
>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at GDB,
>>>> I had a nightmarish
>>> crossing
>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all costs.
>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs and
>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as wrong as
>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
>>>> stressful work, or any of the
>>> other
>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs and not
>>> great
>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great guides.
>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't work
>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs and
>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the reasons I
>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long time
>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe separation
>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I don't
>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was she
>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the fires of
>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think goldens
>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are predominant
>>>> because they adjust well
>>> to
>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
>>>>
>>>> Sherry
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>> Carcione
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>>
>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5 labs
>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness.  Some have
>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as the
>> harness went on.
>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a shepherd,
>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as a
>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but it
>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like sensible
>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there are
>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as guide
>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains several
>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and that
>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every single
>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
>>>>>> variety of handlers.  Labs can work well with everything from the
>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
>>>>>> every single day.
>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big shedding
>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to allergies,
>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for inexperienced dog
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or timidity.
>>>>>> From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a kennel
>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs.  Shepherds are very
>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance.  I'd be
>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least upset
>>>>>> if I get another lab.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good guide
>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen certain
>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service dogs.
>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
>>>>>>> mentality  found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
>>>>>>> guide dogs.
>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid back
>>>>>>> than labs.
>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not eat or
>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems, which
>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German Shepherds.
>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from what
>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not used
>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they are
>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>>>>>> Tolliver
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide dog
>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed that
>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not used
>>>>>>> as often.
>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them privately
>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What advantage
>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds like
>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or even
>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more goldens
>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their goldens
>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide dog.
>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or executive
>>>>>>> decisions.
>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive to
>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not adapt
>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Raven
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> m
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Raven
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Raven
>
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