[nagdu] Why Labradors?
Nicole Torcolini
ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Wed Sep 18 04:46:24 UTC 2013
It has been my experience that it is not the goldens but rather the labs
that lick. To that end, any breed can have a tendency to lick, though.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of I. C. Bray
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:26 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
Tami,
I always look forward to your posts!!
I don't like hair either, but I like poodles even less... No offense!!
Smart dog, yes... yes... I know! Too smart if you ask me. There is one
around here who is NOT well behaved and his Trainer won't make it behave.
I like all the Yellow Labs I've met.
I don't particularly care for goldens ... again hair, but also the
licking... and licking... and licking.. and licking... and licking... oh,
did I mention the licking?
Does anyone have any advice to curtail that behavior?
Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tami Jarvis" <tami at poodlemutt.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: Raven,
:
: For some reason, I've preferred "something other than lab" as a guide.
: Don't know why, since I like labs. I guess there are other breeds I like
: better. But I've come to the conclusion that when/if I go through a
: program, I will no doubt be thrilled with a lab if that's what they
: match me with.
:
: It seems like another plus with labs in the business sense is that there
: is a fair amount of variety in their temperaments, so more available
: matches per litter. There are speedy, energetic labs and mellow,
: laid-back labs. So apparently, they are less one-size-fits-all.
:
: Then there are poodles... /lol/ I had viewed labs as super hyper and
: goofy and was shocked to learn they were being used as guides. Then I
: observed a couple in harness and realized they were great. It does make
: sense, since they are hunting -- working -- dogs from before they became
: the designated pet breed. Then I got a poodle, so I now see labs as
: mellow and serious, even the pet lab pups doing their labby thing at hte
: park. Lab owners see me as just plain nuts when I mention it must be
: nice to have such a placid puppy... Until I explain that I have a
: poodle. Oh. /lol/
:
: I've known some hyper goofy pet goldens, too, but they seem to make
: really great guides. For now, I'm still debating the poodle vs. dobie
: choice for my next, and I still have my lifelong shepherd yen. Except
: for the shedding there. Poodle has me and my spouse spoiled. So it's
: down to poodle vs. dobie.
:
: Tami
:
:
: On 09/17/2013 07:49 AM, Raven Tolliver wrote:
: > Hi Tracy,
: > That's promising. I suppose it wouldn't kill to try out a lab, several
: > years from now, when I'm applying for the next dog, if that's what I
: > choose to do. I mean, I would still shoot for a golden, but if I ended
: > up with a well-behaved, low energy, calm, gentle labrador, I would
: > stick with it to really experience the difference between the two
: > breeds.
: >
: > On 9/17/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
: >> Hi Raven. You'd need a lab like my Benny, then. He's extremely quiet.
I
: >> say he has a stuffed animal switch. He lies down, flips the switch,
and
: >> turns himself into a stuffed animal. He only dances around for a few
: >> minutes a day. I've never met another dog like him.
: >> Tracy
: >>
: >>
: >> ----- Original Message -----
: >> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
: >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
: >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
: >> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:18 PM
: >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>
: >>
: >>> Yeah, I think the puppy-like behavior is what bothers me. If I wanted
: >>> a puppy, I would get one. That insane behavior and getting into things
: >>> is exactly what I'm referring to when I say they are high-strung,
: >>> goofy,and quirky. The running in circles, barking or growling--that's
: >>> a little nuts. Going after everything on the floor, or jumping up to
: >>> grab things that are on counters or high up--that's a nuisance.
: >>> I just don't think a labrador would ever be for me. I prefer a more
: >>> laid-back, mature, and well-mannered golden. I like a dog that's
: >>> perfectly fine with working all day from 9 to 9, but also okay with
: >>> sitting around the apartment all day with a couple play sessions
: >>> thrown in. I just don't need a dog with high energy requirements.
: >>> There's other reasons why I wouldn't get a lab, but the ones above are
: >>> big contributing factors.
: >>>
: >>>
: >>> On 9/16/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
: >>>> Hi Debbie,
: >>>> Leone sounds really cute, though I haven't always experienced, with
: >>>> my labs, the puppyish behavior until 5. Huck still has some, but he
: >>>> never
: >>>> bothers anything in the house though he is much happier working and
: >>>> going
: >>>> places.
: >>>> The puppy part, if it isn't destructive, is one of the things I love
: >>>> about labs; they enjoy life!!!! They usually enjoy their work, too,
and
: >>>> they are seldom in a bad mood.
: >>>> Darla & HANDSOME Huck
: >>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debbie
Cole
: >>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 5:43 PM
: >>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>
: >>>> Labradores... they always have the minds and hearts of a puppy. they
: >>>> just
: >>>> never seem to grow up. We need to baby proof our house. No socks or
: >>>> objects left where she can get to them. Coffee Tables must be
cleaned.
: >>>> Remote controls up high.
: >>>>
: >>>> My Leone she gets this playful behavior mostly in the evenings after
her
: >>>> 2nd
: >>>> to last walk. (we're in an apartment with no yard) If i'm at the
: >>>> computer
: >>>> she will look at me from 5 feet away then start barking and running
: >>>> around
: >>>> the living room. this means let's play. she's 5.
: >>>> Still a puppy. So I get her bone or a tug toy and i play tug with
her
: >>>> or
: >>>> throw her kongs. Until she's tired.
: >>>>
: >>>> Once a Lab always a puppy.
: >>>>
: >>>> Debbie & Leone
: >>>>
: >>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
: >>>>> My Bianca has had horrible house behavior, but I attribute that to
her
: >>>>> intelligence. Her mind was always looking for something to do. I
: >>>>> learned dog proofing to a level I'd never needed before. Now she's
: >>>>> nearly thirteen, she can't physically get into the mischief she used
: >>>>> to do. But since nobody, dog or human is perfect, I accept the
: >>>>> negative side of their personalities. On the other hand, Olga, my
: >>>>> current working dog, would no more get into trouble in the house
than
: >>>>> I would jump off a bridge! But though she's smart and a solid steady
: >>>>> worker, she doesn't have that edge and absolute brilliance Bianca
has.
: >>>>> But she is the dog I need for my life as it is now. I work from home
: >>>>> now, and when Bianca was working, she'd have gone crazy with that
kind
: >>>>> of schedule.
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
: >>>>> Tolliver
: >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 11:58 AM
: >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>>
: >>>>> I meant to put more of a focus on a lab's quirkiness than their
: >>>>> goofiness. I've definitely trained labradors that didn't goof off
: >>>>> during the session unless there was a toy involved, of course.
: >>>>> by work ethic, I guess I'm referring to the dog's concentration on
and
: >>>>> sincerity during work. I hear too many stories about labs being
: >>>>> stubborn in harness about sniffing, scavenging, and snatching up
: >>>>> people's food, being far too high-strung, getting easily excited and
: >>>>> wild about little things, and having inappropriate house manners
when
: >>>>> out of harness. It's very possible that this is the case because
there
: >>>>> are more labs in the field than any other breed. Also, I know that
: >>>>> dogs are creatures of opportunity and it rests more on the handler
to
: >>>>> maintain consistent control of their dog than it rests on the dog
to
: >>>>> restrain itself. despite having a lax handler. It may be true as
well
: >>>>> that some of these behaviors are prominent because schools are
giving
: >>>>> out adolescent dogs, and the inappropriate behaviors probably fade
: >>>>> with age.
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> On 9/16/13, Sherry Gomes <sherriola at gmail.com> wrote:
: >>>>>> I have to agree. My labs aren't goofy in their work, and I like the
: >>>>>> silly side in their off work hours. My retired Bianca, a black lab,
: >>>>>> I'd
: >>>>> challenge
: >>>>>> against any breed with a stronger work ethic. I have pretty
: >>>>>> specialized needs in my guide. I need a dog that is 100 percent
easy
: >>>>>> to manage, but at the same time, the dog has to be smart with great
: >>>>>> initiative. I can fall over a tiny crack in a sidewalk, for
instance.
: >>>>>> And I must be a route traveler, because the longer I am on my feet,
: >>>>>> the more pain and time for recovering I might have to have. So, I
: >>>>>> need my dogs to be smart, to learn what I need to have done, where
to
: >>>>>> be cautious, to be able to walk at a slow pace without getting
: >>>>>> distracted and not to have the sort of initiative
: >>>>> that
: >>>>>> makes them want to explore a little. During training, Bianca picked
: >>>>>> up everything I needed. She'd slow or even stop at dips for
driveways
: >>>>>> on a sidewalk, or hesitate at the top of a wheel chair ramp as we
: >>>>>> approached a corner. She instinctively seemed to know what could
trip
: >>>>>> me up and she'd look for the smoothest part of the area. She would
: >>>>>> remember a place we'd been to after one visit. When I worked at
GDB,
: >>>>>> I had a nightmarish
: >>>>> crossing
: >>>>>> on my way to work, the sort of crossing I dread and avoid at all
: >>>>>> costs.
: >>>>>> There was no way to avoid it, and Bianca got me through it
: >>>>>> confidently, wagging her tail. I heard lots of people say labs and
: >>>>>> goldens don't have a strong work ethic and I think that's as wrong
as
: >>>>>> someone else saying all shepherds are too hyper or can't handle
: >>>>>> stressful work, or any of the
: >>>>> other
: >>>>>> generalizations people make about breeds. There are good dogs and
not
: >>>>> great
: >>>>>> dogs in all breeds, and not all individual dogs make great guides.
: >>>>>> I've seen guides from breeds I wouldn't have expected that were
: >>>>>> amazing, and I've seen horrible labs. I've had labs that didn't
work
: >>>>>> out who weren't made to be guides. I've only ever worked labs and
: >>>>>> goldens, and I'd give a lot to have another golden, but the reasons
I
: >>>>>> say that would probably have my golden from 15 years ago career
: >>>>>> changed now. She was very much a one-person dog who took a long
time
: >>>>>> to turn over to her trainer and then to me and had severe
separation
: >>>>>> anxiety. In the world of cookie cutter training and dogs, I don't
: >>>>>> think they'd give her the time she needed today. But man, was she
: >>>>>> ever one devoted and bonded dog. She have worked across the fires
of
: >>>>>> hell for me if I'd asked her to. And yet, most people think goldens
: >>>>>> are silly. So it all comes down to that I think labs are
predominant
: >>>>>> because they adjust well
: >>>>> to
: >>>>>> the changes in their lives, they are healthy, intelligent and
: >>>>>> friendly. A dog that can work and live in most any environment.
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> Sherry
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
: >>>>>> Carcione
: >>>>>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 10:27 AM
: >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
: >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>> I hear people talk about labrador goofiness, but none of my 5 labs
: >>>>>> have been what I'd call goofy, certainly not in harness. Some have
: >>>>>> been quite playful out of harness, but very serious as soon as the
: >>>> harness went on.
: >>>>>> And, as for work ethic, they don't have the intensity of a
shepherd,
: >>>>>> but they do take their work seriously.
: >>>>>> I guess I'm not real clear on what you mean by "work ethic".
: >>>>>> Tracy
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>> Hi,
: >>>>>>> I never thought about the adjustment to a kennel environment as a
: >>>>>>> contributing factor toward what breed dominates the field, but it
: >>>>>>> makes sense. Also, coat and health maintenance seem like sensible
: >>>>>>> reasons on the surface. Obviously, we want healthy dogs, but
: >>>>>>> personally, I would look for a more serious work ethic and less
: >>>>>>> quirkiness and goofiness in a guide dog.
: >>>>>>> I just thought it would be an interesting question since there are
: >>>>>>> two US guide dog schools that only train German shepherds as guide
: >>>>>>> dogs, and now there is a school in the south that trains several
: >>>>>>> breeds for guide work, none of which are labradors.
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> On 9/16/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
: >>>>>>>> I think labradors have many excellent guide dog qualities, and
that
: >>>>>>>> is why they're so dominant in the field.
: >>>>>>>> They're intelligent, but don't have to second-guess every single
: >>>>>>>> thing their partner asks them to do.
: >>>>>>>> They're adaptable to a wide variety of environments and a wide
: >>>>>>>> variety of handlers. Labs can work well with everything from the
: >>>>>>>> busy college student to the elderly person who may not get out
: >>>>>>>> every single day.
: >>>>>>>> They have an easy-care coat, which does not go through big
shedding
: >>>>>>>> periods, and doesn't tend to get matted.
: >>>>>>>> They are generally healthy--not particularly prone to allergies,
: >>>>>>>> digestive complaints, or other medical issues.
: >>>>>>>> These two things make them easy keepers, even for inexperienced
dog
: >>>>>>>> people.
: >>>>>>>> They tend to be even-tempered, not prone to snappiness or
timidity.
: >>>>>>>> From what I hear, they are less likely to be upset by a kennel
: >>>>>>>> environment, which is helpful to the big schools.
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> I've had 6 dogs, and 5 have been labs. Shepherds are very
: >>>>>>>> handsome, but the one I had was pretty high-maintenance. I'd be
: >>>>>>>> open to a different breed next time, but I won't be the least
upset
: >>>>>>>> if I get another lab.
: >>>>>>>> I
: >>>>>>>> think they're one of the finest breeds around.
: >>>>>>>> Tracy
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> There are certainly other breeds besides labs that make good
guide
: >>>>>>>>> dogs and other types of service dogs, but I have also seen
certain
: >>>>>>>>> breeds, such as collies, which, JMHO, should not be service
dogs.
: >>>>>>>>> Some breeds are smart, but do not have the want-to-please
: >>>>>>>>> mentality found in some of the breeds more commonly used for
: >>>>>>>>> guide dogs.
: >>>>>>>>> As for goldens, I think that they may be a little more laid back
: >>>>>>>>> than labs.
: >>>>>>>>> I do not know if German Shepherds are more sensative to
: >>>>>>>>> corrections, but I do know that they are more likely to not eat
or
: >>>>>>>>> get slightly sick when adjusting to change or in stressful
: >>>>>>>>> situations, such as traveling.
: >>>>>>>>> Also,
: >>>>>>>>> they are more likely to have medical or aggression problems,
which
: >>>>>>>>> is partiallywhy, sadly, GDB no longer trains German Shepherds.
: >>>>>>>>> I have not interacted much with dobermen pinchers, but, from
what
: >>>>>>>>> other people have said, I'm not quite sure why they are not used
: >>>>>>>>> more. I guess that, once schools find breeds that work, they are
: >>>>>>>>> less likely to try something new.
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> Nicole
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
: >>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
: >>>>>>>>> Tolliver
: >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 9:22 AM
: >>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
: >>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Labradors?
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> Hi,
: >>>>>>>>> I am wondering why the majority of dogs trained in most guide
dog
: >>>>>>>>> programs are labrador retrievers. What is it about that breed
that
: >>>>>>>>> makes them dominate in the guide dog field?
: >>>>>>>>> I notice that in other service dog areas, this breed is not used
: >>>>>>>>> as often.
: >>>>>>>>> And when people train their own guide dogs or have them
privately
: >>>>>>>>> trained, it seems that labradors are rarely chosen. What
advantage
: >>>>>>>>> do guide dog programs feel labradors have over other breeds like
: >>>>>>>>> the golden retriever, German shepherd, doberman pinscher, or
even
: >>>>>>>>> the Australian shepherd.
: >>>>>>>>> When I asked a GEB instructor why they didn't pass more goldens
: >>>>>>>>> through, they said it was because a lot of goldens (their
goldens
: >>>>>>>>> anyway), didn't have the confidence it took to be a guide dog.
: >>>>>>>>> They were not confident enough to make independent or executive
: >>>>>>>>> decisions.
: >>>>>>>>> Also, I have heard that German shepherds are more sensitive to
: >>>>>>>>> corrections, and also require more of a routine. They do not
adapt
: >>>>>>>>> to new environments or change as well as other breeds.
: >>>>>>>>> Do you guys find this to be true? What do you think?
: >>>>>>>>> Thanks.
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>>>> Raven
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
: >>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
: >>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
: >>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
: >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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: >>>>>>>>> for
: >>>>>>>>> nagdu:
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>
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: >>>>> ble.co
: >>>>>>>>> m
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>>> et
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>>>>>> l.com
: >>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> --
: >>>>>>> Raven
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
: >>>>>>
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: >>>>>
: >>>>>
: >>>>> --
: >>>>> Raven
: >>>>>
: >>>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>>> nagdu:
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: >>>>> om
: >>>>>
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: >>>>>
: >>>>
: >>>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>
: >>> --
: >>> Raven
: >>>
: >>> _______________________________________________
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: >>>
: >>
: >>
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: >
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