[nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was Guide dog school checklist

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 16:39:30 UTC 2013 

None of us could pay enough to get a dog. I know people donate; I do some, too, not much though. But thanks. It really doesn't matter if we donate or we don't, and many people really just can't. That doesn't mean they deserve any less.

CL

On Sep 20, 2013, at 10:59 AM, "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Howard and Cindy Lou,
> 	Many of us do donate to our schools or put in volunteer hours; I
> hope this is a good addendum to your points, CL.
> Darla & Huck
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:47 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was
> Guide dog school checklist
> 
> I respectfully disagree with this premise. I do not mind paying some, and
> I've donated to my school. Most if not all of us would be without dogs if we
> had to pay for them. However, if we didn't get dogs from the schools, they
> wouldn't exist. We feed the volunteers'/donors' need to feel good by
> continuing to get the dogs at the schools. The schools are serving two
> purposes, well three: 1. They serve those of us who get our dogs there. As
> such, we should have the right to make demands and have those schools as
> answerable to us as is reasonably possible. There are variances, so maybe we
> could choose another school, but we should be able to be heard and our
> requests/demands taken into consideration.
> 2. They serve the volunteers/donors. People feel really good about doing
> this donation thing and the other things they do for the school. Whether we
> like it or not, it is a fact. Volunteers  make some demands, too, and their
> demands are heard because their money/volunteerism is valued, just as our
> using the services of the school should be.
> 3. They serve their employees. Without the schools, there would not be
> people paid to work there. People from housekeeping to clerical to
> administrative to training work there. Trainers are trained there to do
> their work, which makes them valuable not only to the particular school at
> which they are working but to others should they choose to change jobs, or
> they could actually free lance. Of course some trainers had a lot of
> training other places such as in K9 units. So the schools do have an
> obligation to hear and grant our requests to the extent possible, or they
> need to explain to us in the same way they would to any other intelligent
> human beings that they were explaining something to why our requests/demands
> could not be granted.
> 
> JMO.
> CL
> 
> On Sep 20, 2013, at 10:15 AM, "Howard J. Levine" <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> I agree that school don't do good job of working with handlers, but 
>> who is paying for the dog. If we don't pay for our guide dogs then we 
>> don't have lot to say, if you want to have more of say in how your 
>> guide dog is trained then you need to pay up, then you can have big say.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National 
>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:52 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was 
>> Guide dog school checklist
>> 
>> Darla,
>> 	It is refreshing to hear someone who believes the training programs 
>> need to be more consumer oriented on the things that matter rather 
>> than on the superficial details. Sometimes I think the training 
>> programs prefer to focus upon the superficial in order to avoid those 
>> issues they would rather not discuss. This is one of the reasons for 
>> having our Guide Dog Users' Bill of Rights. Though some assert we are 
>> trying to force training programs to comply with our opinions of what 
>> makes a good program, the real reason for the Bill of Rights is to 
>> help consumers understand what sorts of details need to be a part of a 
>> program that treats blind consumers with dignity and respect.
>> 
>> 	One of the items of the Bill of Rights is that of full disclosure 
>> prior to committing to training. Some programs, for instance, fail to 
>> disclose that their staff will make surprise visits or that they have 
>> the right to repossess the guide dog without cause. Though they may 
>> deny either is so, the record demonstrates it is! If they were to 
>> disclose such information in advance, how many consumers do you think 
>> would opt for such a paternalistic, intrusive program?It sound better 
>> to let consumers know that they will have private rooms with internet 
>> and food prepared by a chef than to let them know they could have 
>> their dog repossessed if they do not submit to their irrational policies!
> JMHO!
>> 
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>> 
>> 
>> yfi
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla 
>> Rogers
>> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:12 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog school checklist
>> Importance: High
>> 
>> Dear Raven,
>> 
>> 	I'd like to see the schools themselves, be more descriptive of the 
>> kinds of dogs they train--traits  they see, etc.--less about the rooms 
>> and food, and the like, if this is making sense to everyone.
>> 	Also some schools seem to have requirements that aren't spelled out 
>> clearly--like having X number of routes traveled X times per week, 
>> etc.--though this wouldn't be the purpose of the survey of which 
>> Marion speaks, right?
>> Darla & hardworking Huck
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven 
>> Tolliver
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:03 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide dog school checklist
>> 
>> Okay, so a few times a month, emails come into the list, from people 
>> asking about which guide dog school the listers would recommend they 
>> attend or avoid.
>> Would it be possible to have someone or a group of people comprise a 
>> list of the various guide dog schools in the US and there most notable 
>> qualities and most undesirable qualities? It would be nice to just 
>> access a website or document with this information rather than having 
>> to look at several different websites, make several different phone 
>> calls, and send a handful of emails. This would at least make it 
>> easier to narrow down potential schools to two or three, then do some
> further investigation.
>> I also think that it would make people aware that there are different 
>> kinds of guide dog programs to choose from. Some people don't even 
>> know that certain schools exist.
>> I understand that this would be very subjective as for what people 
>> think are desirable or undesirable. Also, schools change training 
>> methods, breeds in training, and other things from time to time, so 
>> this list would have to be updated.
>> It would be nice if the old guide dog school survey would be updated, 
>> but where's the progress on that?
>> What do you guys think?
>> --
>> Raven
>> 
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