[nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was Guide dog school checklist

Darla Rogers djrogers0628 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 20 18:37:45 UTC 2013 

Dear Howard,
	No; more education needs to take place, so the public understands
well that guide dogs aren't perfect; they do make mistakes Hence, the
correction--I think most schools use a hierarchy of correction--the least
amount needed is used.  First, a verbal reprimand and so on up the chain of
correction.
	IMO, softer dogs don't last as long; they don't have as much
initiative; they can't figure things out, etc.
	We are still the customer; if you look at most web
sites--not-for-profit or not--the phrase "world-class customer service"
often comes up
	I must have lost track of what started this, but I have been
accused, more than once of not treating my dog well.  Guess what?  I am
working with my eighth dog, and with God's help, I can work him, at least, 8
years.
	If you were aware of some happens with schools, you might just feel
differently, and I don't think we need to be meek little sheep or daddy
Guide Dog School won't give us a dog; that is ludicrous in the extreme, and
people are getting tired of it, but most of us neither have the funding or
the expertise or time to train our own dogs or have it done.
	As long as we allow organizations for and of the blind to patronize
us; ignore our concerns, etc., it diminishes us as people; we are not just
numbers; we are living, breathing human beings, as our dogs are living
breathing human beings.
	Believe me, my schools--individual instructors or administration
have not always like what I said--but in the long run, I need a dog that
works the way I need a dog to work; otherwise, I might as well adopt a
shelter dog.
Darla & Huck


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Howard J. Levine
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 12:31 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was
Guide dog school checklist



-----Original Message-----

The school listen to the ones who pay the bills and if the public wanters a
softer dogs or does't want to leach corections then that what the guide dog
schools are going to do.The ones who give noney and there time set the
rules. If you wamt to be the costomer then we need to take out our check
books. I understand that most of use can't write check for our guide dogs,
we just half to go long with the game. I don't like and if I have enough
money the next time I go new guide dog then I will go private and pay for a
new guide dog then I can call the shots.From: nagdu
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry Gomes
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 12:25 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was
Guide dog school checklist

I agree. In fact, I think that when the schools stop thinking of us as
clients and start thinking of us as customers or consumers, we might be
moving in the right direction. 

Sherry



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 9:47 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was
Guide dog school checklist

I respectfully disagree with this premise. I do not mind paying some, and
I've donated to my school. Most if not all of us would be without dogs if we
had to pay for them. However, if we didn't get dogs from the schools, they
wouldn't exist. We feed the volunteers'/donors' need to feel good by
continuing to get the dogs at the schools. The schools are serving two
purposes, well three: 1. They serve those of us who get our dogs there. As
such, we should have the right to make demands and have those schools as
answerable to us as is reasonably possible. There are variances, so maybe we
could choose another school, but we should be able to be heard and our
requests/demands taken into consideration.
2. They serve the volunteers/donors. People feel really good about doing
this donation thing and the other things they do for the school. Whether we
like it or not, it is a fact. Volunteers  make some demands, too, and their
demands are heard because their money/volunteerism is valued, just as our
using the services of the school should be.
3. They serve their employees. Without the schools, there would not be
people paid to work there. People from housekeeping to clerical to
administrative to training work there. Trainers are trained there to do
their work, which makes them valuable not only to the particular school at
which they are working but to others should they choose to change jobs, or
they could actually free lance. Of course some trainers had a lot of
training other places such as in K9 units. So the schools do have an
obligation to hear and grant our requests to the extent possible, or they
need to explain to us in the same way they would to any other intelligent
human beings that they were explaining something to why our requests/demands
could not be granted.

JMO.
CL

On Sep 20, 2013, at 10:15 AM, "Howard J. Levine" <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> I agree that school don't do good job of working with handlers, but 
> who is paying for the dog. If we don't pay for our guide dogs then we 
> don't have lot to say, if you want to have more of say in how your 
> guide dog is
trained
> then you need to pay up, then you can have big say.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National 
> Association of Guide Dog Users
> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 10:52 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] Why Training Programs Share Superficial Details was 
> Guide dog school checklist
> 
> Darla,
> 	It is refreshing to hear someone who believes the training programs 
> need to be more consumer oriented on the things that matter rather 
> than on the superficial details. Sometimes I think the training 
> programs prefer to focus upon the superficial in order to avoid those 
> issues they would
rather
> not discuss. This is one of the reasons for having our Guide Dog Users'
Bill
> of Rights. Though some assert we are trying to force training programs 
> to comply with our opinions of what makes a good program, the real 
> reason for the Bill of Rights is to help consumers understand what 
> sorts of details need to be a part of a program that treats blind 
> consumers with dignity
and
> respect.
> 
> 	One of the items of the Bill of Rights is that of full disclosure 
> prior to committing to training. Some programs, for instance, fail to 
> disclose that their staff will make surprise visits or that they have 
> the right to repossess the guide dog without cause. Though they may 
> deny
either
> is so, the record demonstrates it is! If they were to disclose such 
> information in advance, how many consumers do you think would opt for 
> such
a
> paternalistic, intrusive program?It sound better to let consumers know
that
> they will have private rooms with internet and food prepared by a chef
than
> to let them know they could have their dog repossessed if they do not
submit
> to their irrational policies! JMHO!
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
> 
> 
> yfi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla 
> Rogers
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 9:12 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog school checklist
> Importance: High
> 
> Dear Raven,
> 
> 	I'd like to see the schools themselves, be more descriptive of the 
> kinds of dogs they train--traits  they see, etc.--less about the rooms 
> and food, and the like, if this is making sense to everyone.
> 	Also some schools seem to have requirements that aren't spelled out 
> clearly--like having X number of routes traveled X times per week, 
> etc.--though this wouldn't be the purpose of the survey of which 
> Marion speaks, right?
> Darla & hardworking Huck
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven 
> Tolliver
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 7:03 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Guide dog school checklist
> 
> Okay, so a few times a month, emails come into the list, from people
asking
> about which guide dog school the listers would recommend they attend 
> or avoid.
> Would it be possible to have someone or a group of people comprise a 
> list
of
> the various guide dog schools in the US and there most notable 
> qualities
and
> most undesirable qualities? It would be nice to just access a website 
> or document with this information rather than having to look at 
> several different websites, make several different phone calls, and 
> send a handful of emails. This would at least make it easier to narrow 
> down potential schools to two or three, then do some further
investigation.
> I also think that it would make people aware that there are different
kinds
> of guide dog programs to choose from. Some people don't even know that 
> certain schools exist.
> I understand that this would be very subjective as for what people 
> think
are
> desirable or undesirable. Also, schools change training methods, 
> breeds in training, and other things from time to time, so this list 
> would have to
be
> updated.
> It would be nice if the old guide dog school survey would be updated, 
> but where's the progress on that?
> What do you guys think?
> --
> Raven
> 
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