[nagdu] The Breed or the Dog

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Tue Sep 24 14:08:20 UTC 2013


Hi Raven.
I think we basically agree.  I too would not accept a dog who was always
bouncing off the walls.  It would not suit my lifestyle, and I will make
that clear in the letter I always send with my application.
But I occasionally find people who want what they don't need.  They might
want a dog with a lot of drive and initiative, but only use that dog to
walk from the paratransit van to some building and back again.  That dog
will get bored mighty quick, and start getting into mischief to keep
itself amused.  I see this in my Ben, who is excellent in the big city,
but tends to get bored when we visit the town where I grew up in the land
of the car.
IMO, people should tell the school what they would like in a dog, but, if
they get something different, give it a try.  And, by all means, speak up
if they really don't like the dog.  And I think it wouldn't hurt if the
trainers explained why they chose the dog they did, if it's different from
what the student wanted.  I think sometimes they don't want to explain,
because they don't want to hurt someone's wittle feewings.  And I think
sometimes they just give the student what he or she wants, even if they
don't think it's actually right.
I think clear and open communication should have a big place in the
matching process. And I think both student and trainer should take the
other's ideas into consideration.  They don't have to agree, necessarily,
but entertain the possibility the other person may be right. Which means
that people have to be willing to speak up.
Tracy


> Very likely, the woman you mention had a truly horrible experience with a
> man.  Think sexual abuse, rape, forced prostitution, that sort of thing.
>
> My problem with the mentality of "the dog you need" v. "the one you want"
> is
> that at it's very easy for the schools to say "This is the dog you need"
> when the consumer clearly is not happy with the school's selection.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 3:33 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Breed or the Dog
>
> Tracy,
> I see your point. Some people are not suited to handle certain breeds,
> such
> as German shepherds, dobies, or poodles. However, I think it is perfectly
> fine to get what you need as well as what you want in a dog.
> If a person has a strong preference, they should ask for it. If the
> program
> doesn't have what the prospective student is looking for, then perhaps the
> student should give some leeway if they decide not to look at another
> program.
>  I do think preference should be strongly considered though, because
> certain
> people will not bond correctly to their dog if the dog turns out to be
> something very different from what they wanted and expected.
> For instance, I know of a woman who had her dog for at least a year and a
> half; I'm not sure if they're still together. Anyhow, she had requested a
> female dog and was very emphatic about it. The school decided a male dog
> best suited her. I'm not sure why the sex of her dog was a big deal, but
> she
> ended up disliking her dog. I really don't think she loved him. She would
> leave him behind or hand him off to another person on a regular basis. The
> dog was often seen with other individuals, far more than it was ever seen
> with her. She had a designated friend who would feed, groom, play with,
> and
> pick up behind her dog. It was almost like the dog belonged to her friend.
> I say, if you can get the best of both worlds, shoot for that first.
> Then, start narrowing things down if you're having trouble finding a guide
> that meets your desires. I would never encourage someone to shoot for less
> than what they wanted out of a guide unless they had a number of
> surrealistic or unlikely expectations, or the wrong motives for wanting a
> certain type of dog, such as for beauty or protection.
> But personally, I am not going to settle for something less than, just
> because there's a possibility I won't get what I want. To flip this, I
> will
> definitely not settle for a dog that possesses characteristics or
> behaviors
> that I find undesirable, such as certain quirks or behaviors. For
> instance,
> I do not want a dog that could be described as extremely playful, or could
> play for hours so to speak. That is reasonable on my part. That would be
> cause for a lot of frustration from my and the dog's perspectives, and
> things in my home would likely end up destroyed because I was not meeting
> the dog's needs.
> It's hard to determine what is a reasonable extent of selectiveness.
> But I would be a hypocrite if I said I would discourage a guide dog
> handler
> or potential guide dog handler from being choosy. Frankly, it is the
> schools' job to analyze the student's needs, then give out a dog that
> suits
> the student. If the student doesn't like the dog, or if the dog has
> qualities that they do not want in a dog, they are more than free to say
> so.
> I don't know why people don't speak up.
>
>
>
> On 9/18/13, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>> Sometimes, what you want is not what you need.  Plenty of people want
>> a shepherd, but aren't really cut out to deal with one, for example.
>> It's nice to get what you want, but it's more important that it suit
>> your needs.
>>
>> "You can't always get what you want, but you find sometimes you get
>> what you need."
>> Tracy
>>> Nicole,
>>> I think a service dog user has just as much a right to be picky about
>>> their working dog as any other person would be about selecting their
>>> pet dog. Whether people like it or not, certain breeds tend to have
>>> certain mannerisms and characteristics that are desirable to some,
>>> acceptable to others, and undesirable for certain people. Now, there
>>> are always exceptions to the rule, and dog personalities that don't
>>> match the stereotypes. However, if I have temperament and personality
>>> requirements for a dog, and there are particular breeds that tend to
>>> not match up with those standards, then I will not be likely to
>>> choose those breeds. I am not budging on what I am willing to handle
>>> and deal with because for the next one to ten years, or even beyond,
>>> I have to live with that dog when it's in and out of harness.
>>> There are thousands of working-type dogs out there, and more than a
>>> dozen schools. And if I had and wanted to put forth all the time,
>>> energy, effort, and money, I could personally search for, choose, and
>>> train or have trained, the breed I desire.
>>> There is absolutely nothing wrong with being picky. I was picky my
>>> first go round, and I got exactly what I asked for. After being
>>> exposed to so many goldens throughout my life, I had no doubt in my
>>> mind that this was the breed of dog that matched me perfectly. When I
>>> found that GEB had the dog for me, and I finally met him, I was more
>>> than pleased. I saw the way the other labs acted in class on numerous
>>> occasions, and was grateful that I was not the person going home with
>>> those dogs. While the dogs were in people's faces, being forceful,
>>> licking them, jumping up in their laps, vocalizing frequently,
>>> tearing stuff up, pulling hard and speeding down stairs, I had this
>>> low energy, calm, laid-back, docile creature. Maybe there was a
>>> second choice dog in the kennels for me that was a low energy, gentle
>>> labrador, but I'll never know. But I believe that the next time I
>>> apply for a guide, there will be another golden waiting for me in a
>>> kennel somewhere.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/18/13, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>> All the discussion about different breeds has caused me to think
>>>> about something. Often, we know what it is that we want in a dog. We
>>>> then try to generalize that to a specific breed or set of breeds,
>>>> saying I will take these breeds and I won't take those breeds.
>>>> However, I think that, sometimes, we get so caught up in the whole
>>>> breed thing, that we miss the whole point. When I went to GDB in
>>>> 2007, I told them my breed, color, and gender preferences, but I
>>>> also told them that, if they found a dog that they thought was for
>>>> me, even if it was the lowest on my list, that I would take it
>>>> because, for me, I would rather get a dog that was right for me and
>>>> not quite the breed that I wanted than get a dog that was the breed
>>>> I wanted but not for me.
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Raven
>
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