[nagdu] The matching process

Deanna Lewis DLewis at clovernook.org
Thu Sep 26 12:15:58 UTC 2013 

Cindy,
I liked doing the obedience practices at GDB with the practice dogs. I had a big Golden and he was very strong and did not respond well to corrections. You had to give a very strong correction with him. I was very happy that he did not become my guide dog. He was just too hard to handle. 
Now, Pascal can be stubborn a lot of the time, but he typically responds well to leash cues and corrections. Pascal does really well with a slip collar, but did not do so well with a martingale. 
Deanna and Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 8:42 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The matching process

When I was at TSE, we did do obedience with the "practice dogs." I suspect that with different trainers that is done differently.

I think it is true that if you go to a school long enough, the do tend to know who you are. Also, you have to take the application process seriously. I got my best matches when I wrote a book on what I wanted. When I got Spencer, they had a black lab waiting in the wings if Spencer did not work out. My trainer did tell me some pros and cons of the other dog. I really would have to say that Spencer was probably my best dog of any I've had. And yes, there are always more dogs in class than there are people. Fisher was ready in September; I got him in December.

CL

On Sep 25, 2013, at 7:36 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net> wrote:

> It's my understanding that, at least at TSE and GDB, they always have a few extra dogs for a class, so they can make the best match.  Some don't get used and get passed along to the next class.  A friend got one that had been passed along a few times, because they couldn't find the right match for it. It's like she was just waiting for my friend to come along. Qismet.
> When my friend worked a couple dogs, and decided on the one she wanted, it was after long discussions with the trainer, telling her the pros and cons of each.  The actual working of the dog was the final deciding factor, among many others.  My friend and the trainer had also known each other for many years, which I think can be a great help.  Even seeing someone on follow-up a few times ought to give a trainer some idea of how a person works with a dog, and the environment the dog will work in. I think that, the longer one sticks with one school, the better chance one has of getting a good match, because the trainers get a better idea of what the student needs and wants.
> 
> Last time I was at TSE, we did "practice dogs", but, at least with my trainer, it wasn't much, just making the dogs sit quietly while the trainer talked to us.  I think doing obedience would have been more useful.
> Tracy
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicole Torcolini" 
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The matching process
> 
> 
>> I don't know exactly why you are not allowed to know what dog you are 
>> going to receive before you get it. Maybe it has something to do with 
>> the fact that people might possibly talk about it and think that 
>> someone else was going to receive the dog that he/she thought should be for him/her instead.
>> Not sure. The idea of getting to meet different dogs sounds 
>> interesting, but I am not exactly sure how it would work if you only 
>> have enough dogs for the exact number of people. Also, I don't know 
>> if only a few minutes with a dog is long enough to make a real decision about if the dog is right for you.
>> The trainers have been working with the dogs for months and know them well.
>> Hopefully, the trainers will use that knowledge when making decisions.
>> If you leave training without a dog for whatever reason, it does not 
>> necessarily mean that you failed. Sometimes, things just don't work 
>> the way that we want them to, but that does not mean that we did anything wrong.
>> I agree that different interpretations can be a problem sometimes. I 
>> don't exactly remember what all I told GDB besides that I wanted a 
>> dog with personality. I think that I did explain that that did not 
>> mean hard to handle. I got exactly what I wanted.
>> I agree that it might be very easy to fall in love with a dog that 
>> you thought was for you but was not really.
>> Although GDB does not let you meet the perspective dogs, they do, or 
>> at least did, do two things that I think help a little. First, if 
>> they think that you should get a guide dog but are not quite sure, 
>> they have you go to an extended evaluation where you do more Juno 
>> walks on longer routes and get to work with one or two dogs. Second, 
>> even though you do not actually work them, one of the activities 
>> during the few days before D Day is to do obedience with some of the 
>> dogs from the next class. This gives the trainers a better idea of 
>> what you can handle. I remember the two dogs with which I did 
>> obedience. One was a slightly stubborn male and the other was a more 
>> agreeable female. Although I think that the trainers already had a 
>> pretty good idea of what dog was right for me--Lexia was picked out 
>> for me before class started--I think that it showed the trainers that a dog like the male dog would not be a good dog for me.
>> 
>> Nicole
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla 
>> Rogers
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:57 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The matching process
>> 
>> Good points, Julie and Tracy.  I think that might have happened to 
>> me--it was down to a couple of dogs--and it was pointed out to me, I 
>> didn't walk as fast as they thought I meant by fast, and so far, I 
>> couldn't be happier with Huck.
>> He has initiative to help me find places--or my way out--if I give 
>> wrong directions; he will stand his ground if he thinks he's right; 
>> he remembers well; his pull isn't too hard for me, and the biggest 
>> plus, he makes it very clear to me, that his main mission in life is to please me.
>> Darla & Huck
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>> Carcione
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 12:45 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The matching process
>> 
>> Julie, you are too right!  It makes me hesitant to ask for a 
>> confident dog, in case I get a monster, or an easy-to-handle dog, in 
>> case I get a total marshmallow.  Maybe it's best to just let the 
>> trainer know as much as I can about my lifestyle--where I work, what 
>> I like to do, and what I expect of my dog, like the ability to handle 
>> crowds and traffic, or to lie quietly while I sit at my desk for hours.
>> I believe strongly that it's important to try to communicate these 
>> things, tricky as it can be, and to speak up if a match doesn't seem to be working.
>> I always feel happiest when I have plenty of information on which to 
>> base a decision, so I assume the trainer would also rather have lots 
>> of info, rather than making his or her best guess based on a chat and 
>> a couple Juno walks.
>> Tracy
>> 
>>> Recently, when I was picking Jetta from the litter, I had discussed 
>>> what sort of dog I was looking for with the breeder.  she made two 
>>> suggestions, neither were Jetta.  I was struggling with whether or 
>>> not to go with a puppy she was suggesting or to go with my own 
>>> hunch.  So I asked her why she picked those particular puppies.  She 
>>> explained and it made sense, they did have the traits I was looking for.
>>> However they had them in greater quantities than I was prepared for.
>>> In the end it came down to an issue of communication.  I said I 
>>> wanted a bold, confident dog and she suggested puppies based on what 
>>> bold and confident meant to her.  Sure I want a confident dog, but I 
>>> also don't want a constant battle of wills, but I didn't make that 
>>> as clear as I could have.
>>> 
>>> I think the same goes for every other trait, what exactly is a high 
>>> energy dog?  Is my definition of high energy the same as everyone 
>>> else's?  How much pull exactly constitutes a hard pull?What do you 
>>> mean when you ask for an easy to handle dog?  There are so many 
>>> variables and perceptions  of those variables.  You could express 
>>> the same exact criteria to two different trainers and they could 
>>> very well suggest two different dogs because their perception of 
>>> what you want is going to be different based on their different experiences.
>>> 
>>> There are certainly things that can be measured mathematically, pace 
>>> and pull come to mind.  It would be easy enough to match person and 
>>> dog on these factors, but how do you measure initiative or confidence?
>>> 
>>> Julie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Star Gazer
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:18 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The matching process
>>> 
>>> I was thinking more along the lines of the schools not telling 
>>> customers how they came to the decision of matching a person with a 
>>> dog.
>>> If we're going to work successfully with a dog, then we should have 
>>> some visibility as to how and why that dog was selected, along with 
>>> the option to say no, or to discuss with the school why the match 
>>> may not work.
>>> When I was using dogs, I always knew I could push back, but I also 
>>> had the very strong sense that if I did, and I left without a dog, 
>>> then I had failed.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>>> Carcione
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:30 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The matching process
>>> 
>>> What I meant by "mystery" is that it seems traditional for the 
>>> identity of the dog to be a surprise, kinda like not knowing the sex 
>>> of a baby until it's born.  It's amusing, trying to guess before the 
>>> fact, but it doesn't really make much sense.  Why should it be a big
>> secret?
>>> 
>>> I forgot to say before that sometimes picking one's own dog from 
>>> some possibilities doesn't always work, either.  At least, one of my 
>>> classmates fell in love with a very playful golden, and was matched 
>>> with him, but his extreme playfullness wore her out, along with 
>>> other unanticipated characteristics.  She was smart enough to see it 
>>> wasn't going to work, and get a re-match in class.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>>> I don't know why the schools can't say "We use a b and c criteria 
>>>> because that is what has worked in the past". They could also say 
>>>> "And sometimes we guess along with these criteria".
>>>> I am not sure why the mystery aspect is even a factor.
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy 
>>>> Carcione
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:34 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] The matching process
>>>> 
>>>> The last 2 times I was at GDB, my trainer called me before I came 
>>>> to talk about the dogs they had in mind for me.  They told me some 
>>>> of the characteristics of each, and asked if I had a preference.  I 
>>>> really liked that.  I had some idea of what I was going to get, and 
>>>> could get used to the idea.  Last time a friend went to TSE, they 
>>>> actually let her try out the 2 prospective dogs, and discussed the 
>>>> traits of each at length.  In the end, she chose the one she 
>>>> wanted, and was ready for the challenges it presented.
>>>> I like that, too.
>>>> Somehow, it seems traditional to keep the match a mystery until it 
>>>> happens, but it doesn't really have to be that way, and perhaps it 
>>>> shouldn't be, especially if the student and school have a 
>>>> long-standing relationship, so that the school has a pretty good 
>>>> idea of what the student needs.
>>>> Tracy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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