[nagdu] When an Entity May not Make an Inquiry

Darla Rogers djrogers0628 at gmail.com
Fri Apr 4 00:35:11 UTC 2014


Sorry, Marion; I should have not used California but Guide Dog Users of
California.
	You can't even imagine how ticked off they are with me for
explaining all the reasons this won't work and they cannot trump federal
law, right?
Darla & Huck


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
Association of Guide Dog Users
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 10:09 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] When an Entity May not Make an Inquiry

Darla,
	Just to be accurate, it is not the State of California that is
proposing these changes; it is the California Council for the Blind. Even if
the resolution passes, I do not suspect it will get any traction, as it
would require the DOJ to change the implementing regulations and that is not
very likely to happen. Even if it were to happen, we would strongly oppose
such a measure!

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala




-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla Rogers
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 10:15 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] When an Entity May not Make an Inquiry

Thank you, Marion; I still don't see why California thinks licensing will
help.  This just seems to me like it will create more problems than it
solves.
Darla & Huck


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of National
Association of Guide Dog Users
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 6:48 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] When an Entity May not Make an Inquiry

Dear All,
	An important element of this discussion about certification,
documentation, identification, etc. is another provision which is often
overlooked. We have shared that the entity may make certain inquiries, such
as "Is this a service animal required because of a disability?"; however,
the law also says that even such an inquiry may not be made in certain
circumstances. This provision states, " Generally, a public entity
[accommodation] may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it
is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks
for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an
individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person's wheelchair, or
providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an
observable mobility disability)." (28 CFR § 35.136(f) & 28 CFR § 36.302(6))


Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:07 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have certificationfor
service dogs

There's a couple of things. First, most of us on this list probably have
some sort of certification, but I know that there are at least six, probably
more like ten, maybe even more, owner trainers on this list who don't have
any type of certification for their dogs. Second, do you really want people
to be able to just pop up and demand to see your certification, even if your
dog is behaving well and obviously doing her job? I know that it seems silly
for someone to question a perfectly well behaved dog who is working, but I
assure that there are people out there who will do that because they don't
like dogs or because they want to give the blind person a hard time or
because what have you. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:59 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have certificationfor
service dogs

Forgive me... I don't understand the problem with having papers?
I have a picture ID card that my school made, and I always carry it in my
purse, along with a signed paper from the school saying that we completed
the training.  I have never been asked for it, but I don't see a problem...
what am i not understanding?

As for fury... perhaps on some level you are right... but my mother is a
difficult individual, so I am sure there are undercurrents here...

Daryl
----- Original Message -----
From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:49:42 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have certification for
service dogs

Papers?! Where are your papers?! No thanks!

Also, yes, you're overreacting. Certification as a therapy dog of that sort
isn't the same at all as service dog access, nor can it be extended or
passed off as such, at least not in the US. And I think that US laws are
probably a bit more liberal than Canadian provincial ones. You have nothing
to worry about, and your fury is misdirected.
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or (814) 431-0962




On Apr 2, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes you are. The dog will help people. Your mom is clear in the goals 
> and
her dog will have behavioral standards it will have to meet. The kids will
be learning to read to a being that won't criticize them in any way. Some
may develop a love of reading or a love of dogs. Some may just remember the
nice lady who cared enough to show up at school with her dog. Why are you so
upset? 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 3:01 PM, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey,
>> 
>> I am at this point furious with my mother.  She is wanting to "license"
her Bouvier dog as a "service dog" to be able to go into schools and
libraries to have kids read to him... or something. It's great for their
self-esteem!
>> 
>> Granted he is a reasonably well-behaved dog (as evidenced by the 
>> grand
total of 12 hours I spent with him).. but this just makes me mad!  Am I
overreacting? I don't know....
>> 
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:55:33 -0600 (MDT)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have 
>> certification
for    service dogs
>> 
>> Oh boy... I don't even know where to start. 
>> All I can say is, that if these people hope to change the law to fall 
>> in
line with this resolution, they're going to have one heck of a fight on
their hands.  
>> I'm not keen on some schmuck at walmart being able to demand some 
>> kind of
paperwork from me with who knows what kind of personal information on it to
prove something.  The law already has outlined the things a person can ask,
and a service animal can be judged by its behavior, and if someone puts
enough time into training their pet so that it is as well behaved as a
service dog, frankly I don't care if it's in public.  
>> The key here is task training, and if dogs are behaving badly, are 
>> not
house trained, are being disruptive, then as outlined in the law, the owner
can be, and should be, asked to remove the dog. 
>> Lastly, if anyone finds a self trained service dog, do let me know!  
>> I'd
sure would love a dog who could train itself.  Would save me a ton of work! 
>> 
>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 1:44 PM, "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here is something that will impact guide dog users and service dog 
>>> users
that I got on another list.
>>> 
>>> This resolution to be presented at the CCB convention in California 
>>> was
drafted to address the problems of fake service dogs.  What do you all
think?  Could this be a remedy to the problem of people passing off their
pets as service dogs in places of public accomidation?  I wonder if this may
be the only was or is there another way.
>>> 
>>> Here it is pasted below:
>>> 
>>> Whereas: Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act defines 
>>> the rights of people with disabilities to access places of public 
>>> accommodation, and
>>> 
>>> Whereas: These access rights are extended to service animal handlers 
>>> as defined in the 2011 ADA Accessibility Guidelines, and
>>> 
>>> Whereas: These service animal access rights are also guaranteed by 
>>> numerous state and local statutes, and
>>> 
>>> Whereas, Due to weaknesses in the relevant legislation and the 
>>> general ignorance that exists about the legal definition of service 
>>> animals and of their access rights, there exists an epidemic of 
>>> persons fraudulently bringing their pets into places of public 
>>> accommodation under the pretext that they are service animals, and
>>> 
>>> Whereas, The presence and bad behavior of fake service animals in 
>>> places of public accommodation places the access rights of 
>>> legitimate service animal handlers at risk, Therefore be it
>>> 
>>> Resolved by Guide Dog Users of California meeting at the Arden West 
>>> Hilton Hotel in Sacramento, California on April 12, 2014 that this 
>>> organization shall strive to put an end to service animal fraud by 
>>> actively participating in a coalition of like-minded groups to 
>>> advocate for the following changes in law and to engage in  other
related activities.
>>> 
>>> 1. The coalition shall seek changes to ADA regulations and to other 
>>> relevant federal statutes and regulations  as follows.
>>> 
>>> 1.1. The ADA regulations must be amended to permit providers of 
>>> public accommodations to require service animal handlers to show 
>>> documentation to verify the status of their animals as a condition 
>>> for extending their accommodation rights to their animals.
>>> 
>>> 1.2. Federal law must permit states and local governments to enact 
>>> service animal licensure requirements to make it easier for 
>>> providers of public accommodations to distinguish service animals 
>>> from pets, provided that such licensure requirements do not impede 
>>> the access rights of service animal handlers and that the licensure 
>>> requirements are no more costly than those imposed on pet owners..
>>> 
>>> 1.3. Federal law must  restrict  the interstate sale of service 
>>> animal identification products to legitimate service animal training 
>>> programs and to individuals who can provide proof of the status of 
>>> their
service animals.
>>> Vendors who fail to follow these requirements must be subject to 
>>> fines large enough to discourage the traffic in fake service animal
products.
>>> 
>>> 2. The coalition must develop model state laws and regulations as 
>>> described below and then advocate throughout the nation for the 
>>> enactment of these statutes.
>>> 
>>> 2.1. States must implement service animal license laws compliant 
>>> with item
>>> 1.2 above.  These laws must provide for the licensing of animals 
>>> issued through recognized training programs and also provide for the 
>>> licensing of self-trained service animals.
>>> 
>>> 2.2. States must enact prohibitions on the intrastate sale of 
>>> fraudulent service animal identification products that are 
>>> comparable to the prohibitions described in item 1.3.
>>> 
>>> 3. The Coalition shall develop and execute an education campaign to 
>>> inform the public about the definition of a service animal, about 
>>> the access rights of service animal handlers and about the negative 
>>> consequences of and the legal penalties for service animal fraud.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Frank Welte
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Gduc-l mailing list
>>> Gduc-l at ccbnet.org
>>> http://ccbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gduc-l_ccbnet.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is 
>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mardi Hadfield" 
>>> <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:48 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] It's a go
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Jewel, good luck in your class.Hope you get that special dog and 
>>>> have many years of partnership.I hope you won't get rained on to 
>>>> much,lol.Have a great time in class. Mardi and Shaman and Neechee.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
>>>> http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>> for
nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.ne
>>>> t
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
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> 
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