[nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your Thoughts? Your Suggested Plan of Action?

Mon Apr 7 17:27:28 UTC 2014

Hi Mike,

>From what I understand from my research on the topic, the issue of
service dogs in schools would fall under the IDEA.  A dog would be
added to the IEP like a cane or any other tool and treated as such.
At least, that's the simple answer.  The ADA would be the law in
question if a person coming into the school brought their service dog.
 A classroom, however, does not seem to be a public entity, and any
student(even adult students) are subject to the policies of the school
districts.  But these policies cannot require the documentation that
this law does.

I don't know about students who cannot control their own service dogs
in school.  I feel like in those situations the parents and the school
should work together to come up with a solution.  My first thought is
that it wouldn't be fair to ask a para aide to take care of the
student's dog, but maybe I'm missing something.

On 4/7/14, Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com> wrote:
> How does this work from a legal perspective? If a guide dog matched with a
> child bites someone (let's say due to an undiagnosed brain tumor) who would
> be responsible?
> I'm truly curious not trying to argue.
> Let's say the bite happened not at school.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hingson
> Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:09 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your Thoughts?
> Your Suggested Plan of Action?
>
> Again, parents cannot be responsible for a guide dog.  This is not true of
> all companion/service dogs.  Autistic children often need special aids
> which
> is part of a reasonable accommodation covered under the ADA.  The school
> district really shouldn't have a say in the matter except for agreeing with
> the IEP which the parents, children when possible, and the district develop
> together.  IEPs are not relevant concerning guide dogs, nor is any school
> policy which defies the ADA.
>
> Children who have guide dogs are the ones who assume FULL responsibility
> for
> their guides.  This is a part of training, and the students aren't even
> admitted into a school, (at least at the good schools), until the staff is
> satisfied that the child can handle the guide and can assume responsibility
> for the dog.
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
> Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 01:49 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your Thoughts?
> Your Suggested Plan of Action?
>
> The problem with making the parent hire someone to be responsible for the
> dog is that it gives the school an incentive to find things wrong with a
> lot
> of kids so that the school can get more adults in the classroom not at
> school expense. School systems would love this as they would have free
> labor. Also would this lead to a blind student needing to buy his own books
> when other students get their books free of charge? I don't know.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 6, 2014, at 1:37 PM, Alyssa <alyssahenson95 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Take the example of someone like Brandi. She got a guide at 13. It's
>> safe
> to assume she controlled the dog. Also, in Thunder Dog, Mike says he got
> his
> dog at 14. So in that case yes, these kids should be able to handle their
> dogs. Even if not in other cases, I hope this policy gets shut down! Even
> if
> it means a parent or someone hired by the family handles the pooch.
>> Alyssa
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2014, at 10:00 AM, "Darla Rogers" <djrogers0628 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>>   Most children have para-pros; are you suggesting they learn
>>> dog-handling?
>>> Darla & Huggable Huck
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Hingson
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 7:19 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'; 'Star Gazer'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your
>>> Thoughts?Your Suggested Plan of Action?
>>>
>>> Agreed depending on the service the dog is performing.  For example,
>>> autistic children may not maintain full control over the dog and thus
>>> must have an aid, possibly a parent, to be responsible for the dog.
>>> In the case of a guide dog and many other dogs providing services the
>>> handler maintains full control and responsibility for the dog.
>>>
>>> No matter what, policies that do not conform with the ADA must be
>>> struck down.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
>>> Torcolini at Home
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2014 04:36 PM
>>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>> Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your
>>> Thoughts?Your Suggested Plan of Action?
>>>
>>> In most cases, why wouldn't the student be fully responsible for the
>>> dog?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 5, 2014, at 10:18 AM, "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> WTF! Good for you Julie for going to bat for this boy.
>>> As for a service dog, didn't Ann say there was a difference between
>>> an adult in the school using a dog and a student? I can't find her
>>> post, but it seemed to be that adults can use a dog no questions
>>> asked, but children since they are not taking full responsibility for
>>> the
> dog cannot?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 7:16 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your
>>> Thoughts?Your Suggested Plan of Action?
>>>
>>> Actually yes.  I've been to an IEP meeting where the debate was
>>> whether or not to let the little boy use a cane.  By letting him have
>>> his cane at school, the school was also acknowledging that they would
>>> have to provide O&M instruction.  That cost money they didn't want to
>>> spend, so no cane at school.
>>>
>>> I do truly believe that in the classroom and other places where the
>>> public is not invited do not fall under the ADA, but rather the I.D.E.A.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Nicole Torcolini
>>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:04 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Check Out This School District Policy- Your
>>> Thoughts?Your Suggested Plan of Action?
>>>
>>> Um, I'm sorry, but no. A service dog is not an accommodation. Do you
>>> write in an IEP that a student needs a cane or a wheelchair? I don't
> think so.
>>> Service dogs need to be treated the same that a cane or wheelchair
>>> would be treated in regards to being allowed and the student needing
>>> the dog. If there are issues with the dog him/herself or the student
>>> not being able to care for, handle, or control the dog, those issues
>>> need to be handled on a case by case basis .
>>>
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>>
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16