[nagdu] When an Entity May not Make an Inquiry

sheila sleigland at bresnan.net
Tue Apr 8 01:03:45 UTC 2014


totally forgot about that particular provision.  I support nagdu's 
pposition on this matter.that's correct and I t
On 4/3/2014 5:47 AM, National Association of Guide Dog Users wrote:
> Dear All,
> 	An important element of this discussion about certification,
> documentation, identification, etc. is another provision which is often
> overlooked. We have shared that the entity may make certain inquiries, such
> as "Is this a service animal required because of a disability?"; however,
> the law also says that even such an inquiry may not be made in certain
> circumstances. This provision states, " Generally, a public entity
> [accommodation] may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it
> is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks
> for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an
> individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person's wheelchair, or
> providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an
> observable mobility disability)." (28 CFR § 35.136(f) & 28 CFR § 36.302(6))
>
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 11:07 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have certificationfor
> service dogs
>
> There's a couple of things. First, most of us on this list probably have
> some sort of certification, but I know that there are at least six, probably
> more like ten, maybe even more, owner trainers on this list who don't have
> any type of certification for their dogs. Second, do you really want people
> to be able to just pop up and demand to see your certification, even if your
> dog is behaving well and obviously doing her job? I know that it seems silly
> for someone to question a perfectly well behaved dog who is working, but I
> assure that there are people out there who will do that because they don't
> like dogs or because they want to give the blind person a hard time or
> because what have you.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2014 12:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have certificationfor
> service dogs
>
> Forgive me... I don't understand the problem with having papers?
> I have a picture ID card that my school made, and I always carry it in my
> purse, along with a signed paper from the school saying that we completed
> the training.  I have never been asked for it, but I don't see a problem...
> what am i not understanding?
>
> As for fury... perhaps on some level you are right... but my mother is a
> difficult individual, so I am sure there are undercurrents here...
>
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:49:42 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have certification for
> service dogs
>
> Papers?! Where are your papers?! No thanks!
>
> Also, yes, you're overreacting. Certification as a therapy dog of that sort
> isn't the same at all as service dog access, nor can it be extended or
> passed off as such, at least not in the US. And I think that US laws are
> probably a bit more liberal than Canadian provincial ones. You have nothing
> to worry about, and your fury is misdirected.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or (814) 431-0962
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 2, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes you are. The dog will help people. Your mom is clear in the goals
>> and
> her dog will have behavioral standards it will have to meet. The kids will
> be learning to read to a being that won't criticize them in any way. Some
> may develop a love of reading or a love of dogs. Some may just remember the
> nice lady who cared enough to show up at school with her dog. Why are you so
> upset?
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 3:01 PM, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> I am at this point furious with my mother.  She is wanting to "license"
> her Bouvier dog as a "service dog" to be able to go into schools and
> libraries to have kids read to him... or something. It's great for their
> self-esteem!
>>> Granted he is a reasonably well-behaved dog (as evidenced by the
>>> grand
> total of 12 hours I spent with him).. but this just makes me mad!  Am I
> overreacting? I don't know....
>>> Daryl
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:55:33 -0600 (MDT)
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] A CCB resolution on changes to have
>>> certification
> for    service dogs
>>> Oh boy... I don't even know where to start.
>>> All I can say is, that if these people hope to change the law to fall
>>> in
> line with this resolution, they're going to have one heck of a fight on
> their hands.
>>> I'm not keen on some schmuck at walmart being able to demand some
>>> kind of
> paperwork from me with who knows what kind of personal information on it to
> prove something.  The law already has outlined the things a person can ask,
> and a service animal can be judged by its behavior, and if someone puts
> enough time into training their pet so that it is as well behaved as a
> service dog, frankly I don't care if it's in public.
>>> The key here is task training, and if dogs are behaving badly, are
>>> not
> house trained, are being disruptive, then as outlined in the law, the owner
> can be, and should be, asked to remove the dog.
>>> Lastly, if anyone finds a self trained service dog, do let me know!
>>> I'd
> sure would love a dog who could train itself.  Would save me a ton of work!
>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Apr 2, 2014, at 1:44 PM, "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Here is something that will impact guide dog users and service dog
>>>> users
> that I got on another list.
>>>> This resolution to be presented at the CCB convention in California
>>>> was
> drafted to address the problems of fake service dogs.  What do you all
> think?  Could this be a remedy to the problem of people passing off their
> pets as service dogs in places of public accomidation?  I wonder if this may
> be the only was or is there another way.
>>>> Here it is pasted below:
>>>>
>>>> Whereas: Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act defines
>>>> the rights of people with disabilities to access places of public
>>>> accommodation, and
>>>>
>>>> Whereas: These access rights are extended to service animal handlers
>>>> as defined in the 2011 ADA Accessibility Guidelines, and
>>>>
>>>> Whereas: These service animal access rights are also guaranteed by
>>>> numerous state and local statutes, and
>>>>
>>>> Whereas, Due to weaknesses in the relevant legislation and the
>>>> general ignorance that exists about the legal definition of service
>>>> animals and of their access rights, there exists an epidemic of
>>>> persons fraudulently bringing their pets into places of public
>>>> accommodation under the pretext that they are service animals, and
>>>>
>>>> Whereas, The presence and bad behavior of fake service animals in
>>>> places of public accommodation places the access rights of
>>>> legitimate service animal handlers at risk, Therefore be it
>>>>
>>>> Resolved by Guide Dog Users of California meeting at the Arden West
>>>> Hilton Hotel in Sacramento, California on April 12, 2014 that this
>>>> organization shall strive to put an end to service animal fraud by
>>>> actively participating in a coalition of like-minded groups to
>>>> advocate for the following changes in law and to engage in  other
> related activities.
>>>> 1. The coalition shall seek changes to ADA regulations and to other
>>>> relevant federal statutes and regulations  as follows.
>>>>
>>>> 1.1. The ADA regulations must be amended to permit providers of
>>>> public accommodations to require service animal handlers to show
>>>> documentation to verify the status of their animals as a condition
>>>> for extending their accommodation rights to their animals.
>>>>
>>>> 1.2. Federal law must permit states and local governments to enact
>>>> service animal licensure requirements to make it easier for
>>>> providers of public accommodations to distinguish service animals
>>>> from pets, provided that such licensure requirements do not impede
>>>> the access rights of service animal handlers and that the licensure
>>>> requirements are no more costly than those imposed on pet owners..
>>>>
>>>> 1.3. Federal law must  restrict  the interstate sale of service
>>>> animal identification products to legitimate service animal training
>>>> programs and to individuals who can provide proof of the status of
>>>> their
> service animals.
>>>> Vendors who fail to follow these requirements must be subject to
>>>> fines large enough to discourage the traffic in fake service animal
> products.
>>>> 2. The coalition must develop model state laws and regulations as
>>>> described below and then advocate throughout the nation for the
>>>> enactment of these statutes.
>>>>
>>>> 2.1. States must implement service animal license laws compliant
>>>> with item
>>>> 1.2 above.  These laws must provide for the licensing of animals
>>>> issued through recognized training programs and also provide for the
>>>> licensing of self-trained service animals.
>>>>
>>>> 2.2. States must enact prohibitions on the intrastate sale of
>>>> fraudulent service animal identification products that are
>>>> comparable to the prohibitions described in item 1.3.
>>>>
>>>> 3. The Coalition shall develop and execute an education campaign to
>>>> inform the public about the definition of a service animal, about
>>>> the access rights of service animal handlers and about the negative
>>>> consequences of and the legal penalties for service animal fraud.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank Welte
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Gduc-l mailing list
>>>> Gduc-l at ccbnet.org
>>>> http://ccbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gduc-l_ccbnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>>>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mardi Hadfield"
>>>> <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 7:48 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] It's a go
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jewel, good luck in your class.Hope you get that special dog and
>>>>> have many years of partnership.I hope you won't get rained on to
>>>>> much,lol.Have a great time in class. Mardi and Shaman and Neechee.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://wolfsinger-lakota.blogspot.com/
>>>>> http://wolfsinger2-thegoldendragon.blogspot.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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> nagdu:
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>>>>> t
>>>>
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