[nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
Larry D. Keeler
lkeeler at comcast.net
Wed Apr 30 15:54:40 UTC 2014
Well, I guess I'm big enough that I can work with a cute dog! Went for one
on purpose!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vivianna" <irishana at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
> hi all,
> with all this discussion and my posts about it. i just want to say that,
> even though i am very blunt, i am a really nice person, i really am. just
> ask folks who have met me. lol.
> i can say no with a smile on my face. i may have to put that smile there
> consciously but, i do it. i may say; i don't give out my dog's name
> because it's a working name, but, i can say it very nicely.
> i get the feeling that some of you think i am some big mean blind person
> with a chip on my shoulder because i don't want to interact with the
> public all day long.
> that is far from the truth.
> the only time i am harsh is if someone grabs me or my dog without
> permission. this is totally uncalled for and will not be tolerated.
> and, yes, i do think the breed of dog makes a huge difference in how much
> the public bothers you. i currently have a GSD and before her i had a
> doberman with cropped ears. nobody ever touched that dog, ever.
> i wish i could have her back again but, hey, at least she worked for me
> for 11 years.
> the GSD that io have now does not have any interest in soliciting
> attention from strangers . and, in the 2 and a half years that i have had
> her someone has tried to pet her twice.
> since, i prefer to be treated as a person and not have folks focus on the
> dog that just happens to have a blind woman at the end of the harness, i
> choose not to work with a more cute breed of dog. this, however, does not
> make me a bad person, just one who wishes to be treated like everybody
> else out there in the world.
> JMHO
>
> Vivianna
>
> On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:10 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Raven,
>>
>> My current guide is a lab and Boxer mix. Jetta, the Doberman, is
>> tentatively arriving mid August. In my experience very, very, very few
>> people correctly identify the breed of either of them. Jetta more so
>> than Monty, but she has natural ears which I guess makes her look not
>> like a Doberman. Odd, but there it is. Belle, Monty and Jetta are all
>> black dogs and fairly large. I think that makes a difference. Also none
>> of them have been into greeting people much. I think that shows in their
>> body language. My first guide, Tia, would look at people with her gooey
>> eyes and wag gently, which caused a lot of people to talk/pet/interact
>> with her.
>>
>> I think another factor for me is that the other service dog handler in my
>> tiny town is kind of unpleasant. I've heard lots and lots of stories
>> about negative encounters folks have had with her and her dog. One young
>> lady told me she was walking down the street whistling because it was a
>> nice day and she was enjoying it, when the unpleasant service dog
>> handler started screaming at her that she was distracting her dog. I
>> understand that whistling could be distracting to a dog, but I think
>> there are better ways to deal with the situation, realizing that
>> sometimes people whistle and it isn't all about distracting the dog all
>> the time. anyway, I think she has scared a lot of people off about guide
>> and service dogs.
>>
>> But I don't know, even when I travel I don't get a lot of anything about
>> the dog. I'm going out of town this weekend, so we'll see if me saying
>> it isn't a problem makes me look like a fool! that's usually how it
>> goes, say things are great and the universe will show you otherwise.
>> *smile*
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Raven Tolliver
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:50 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>
>> I have learned that a name can be a very intimate thing to know about
>> a person, or a dog for that matter. I do not only give a fake name for
>> my dog, but in some situations, I also use an alias for myself. I have
>> experienced far too much stalkerish behavior and obsessive
>> questioning/attention-getting attempts to be so liberal with the
>> giving out of my dog's name.
>> I have trained my dog to ignore others making stupid noises at him.
>> My petting policy will change from dog to dog. It will just depend on
>> how much each dog is distracted by petting from strangers. The Golden
>> Guy is not distracted by it, so I allow it from time to time.
>> Julie, it may be possible that you don't get asked as often as others
>> because you use a Dobie as your guide. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>> I get asked most often by customers in grocery stores, and by people
>> at the transit station or on the bus.
>> Also, I'm totally with Vivianna on not wanting to interact with the
>> public so much. I just want to go on about my business most days,
>> rather than talk about my dog for half an hour. There is much more to
>> me than just my dog.
>> I understand that my dog is beautiful and irresistible, but at the
>> same time, we are not a spectacle for everyone to gawk at, swoon over,
>> and prattle on about. I am not an exhibit at some zoo or something, I
>> am a human being. I would appreciate it if I was treated with the same
>> dignity as others without a dog.
>>
>>
>> On 4/30/14, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> The not using the dogs name comes from the fact that some folks will
>>> call
>>> your dog while your working. I'me actually had this happen. People whom
>>> you
>>>
>>> don't know will often say hi or tell your dog to do things. The name
>>> thing
>>> is so that people whom you don't want calling your dog will be slightly
>>> less
>>>
>>> distracting to the dog. Also, I've had lots of folks who remember
>>> Holly's
>>> name but not mine. Sometimes I'm kind of annoyed by that. I, mostly
>>> don't
>>> use a different name except the Nose. I'll do that when I am around
>>> folks
>>> who I don't really want to hear her name. There is no right way to
>>> control
>>> petting and other human distractions. I take them individually and deal
>>> with
>>>
>>> them accordingly. If folks are being purposely ignorant, then I am as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> If they are just curious and really don't know, then I deal with that as
>>> well. Also, it depends on how many folks you meet in a day. Also, keep
>>> in
>>> mind that dogs like people are all different. Some like people more than
>>> others. I have a friend who went to a school, came home and after a
>>> couple
>>> of years was having issues with his dog. The main issue was that his dog
>>> was
>>>
>>> dragging him out in the street. Turns out that he was letting women pet
>>> his
>>>
>>> dog in the harrness and when women were walking on the opposite side of
>>> the
>>>
>>> street, he wanted to go for a visit. The behavior was corrected but I
>>> for
>>> one don't really want to take the chance of helping Holly develop bad or
>>> unsafe behaviors.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kristen" <kskristen at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree with you completely; I'm having trouble understanding the
>>>> changing
>>>>
>>>> the name thing. My family calls Corvette Cory for short, and he has
>>>> already starting coming to that. You wouldn't want to confuse them
>>>> more
>>>> with a totally different name. And, as you said, the dog would still
>>>> know
>>>>
>>>> someone is talking to it. You still can give the correct name, but
>>>> politely ask them not to talk to your guide, which will educate them at
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> same time.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kristen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:31:55 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>> Honestly, I don't get the name game. If you talk to or about a dog,
>>>> the
>>>> dog
>>>> is smart enough to know, regardless of if the name is used.
>>>> Furthermore,
>>>>
>>>> as
>>>> others have already pointed out, it only takes the dog so long to
>>>> figure
>>>> it
>>>> out if you use another name.
>>>> When people ask about the name of your dog, they are not trying to make
>>>> trouble. If you think that the person is going to use the name, then
>>>> you
>>>> could say something like, "My dog is named ..' but please don't talk to
>>>> him/her." Some people are going to talk to your dog regardless of what
>>>> you
>>>> say or if you give the name. I would rather give the name and have to
>>>> explain to the person than not give the name; otherwise, people will
>>>> never
>>>> learn. I have told a lot of people that my dog is named Lexia, many of
>>>> whom
>>>> were complete strangers who I probably will never see again, so it does
>>>> not
>>>> really matter. Only a few of the people with whom I interact on a
>>>> regular
>>>> basis talk to Lexia, and they only do it when I say it is okay to talk
>>>> to
>>>> her or when she is not in harness.
>>>> I usually let people pet Lexia in harness if they ask. Luckily, I have
>>>> not
>>>> had too many people try to pet her without asking. I usually do not
>>>> let
>>>> people pet her if we are standing up, especially if we are about to go
>>>> somewhere any minute. When people pet Lexia, she is in a sit or
>>>> preferably a
>>>> down position, and she stays by me. I do not allow her to crawl toward
>>>> the
>>>> person who is petting her. If she does, then I gently pull her back.
>>>> If
>>>>
>>>> the
>>>> behavior continues, then the visiting session is over.
>>>> I don't really like little kids petting Lexia, particularly the ones
>>>> who
>>>> get
>>>> excited as soon as they see her. However, on occasion, I do hear the
>>>> opposite where the child tells the parent that it is a working dog and
>>>> not
>>>> to bother it, which I find quite amusing.
>>>> I used to have a sign to the harness handle. I don't remember what it
>>>> said.
>>>> It did not really help. The people who want to pet your dog are going
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> pet
>>>> you dog regardless of if there is a sign, so the best that you can do
>>>> is
>>>> ask
>>>> them not to pet your dog and do something, such as move away, if they
>>>> don't
>>>> listen. You can also try to train your dog to ignore people.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla Rogers
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 6:24 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>> Dear Rox'e,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for sharing a whole different perspective on
>>>> petting and setting up one's dog to respond to what you need and not
>>>> what
>>>> you don't, and it surely helps to have cooperative coworkers who
>>>> understand
>>>> and support what you are doing.
>>>> Darla & Happy Huck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The Pawpower
>>>> Pack
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:19 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>> I have never given a false name for my dogs. I would think they'd just
>>>> hear
>>>> me cueing my dog using her real name and would know it anyway. Also,
>>>> I'd
>>>> probably forget and give different names to the same person. lol.
>>>> Part of the work I do with my dogs is setting they up for this exact
>>>> situation. If someone calls Laveau's name and she does not know them
>>>> well,
>>>> she will ignore it. If she knows them, she will let me know that
>>>> someone
>>>>
>>>> we
>>>> know is calling her and I can choose to have her take me to them or
>>>> just
>>>> go
>>>> on our way.
>>>> Soleil is learning the same skills, and my friends, coworkers and
>>>> interpreters help me by setting up situations like are being described.
>>>> Since I can't hear, I can't police Soleil's interaction with the public
>>>> like
>>>> a hearing person. I have to trust my dog to be able to work through
>>>> distractions like that.
>>>>
>>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 9:35 AM, "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Have not changed my pet policy. I'll tell folks I know her name and
>>>> sometimes I'll take her harrness off so she can interact with others.
>>>> However, I usually ignore folks whom I don't know. I don't make up
>>>> names
>>>> often although I have been known to.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raven Tolliver"
>>>> <ravend729 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh yes! It annoys me to no end when people ask what my dog's name is.
>>>> I just tell them his name is K, or the most comical one I've been
>>>> using is Celestial Seasonings. Got the idea from a woman whose
>>>> golden's name is Lipton. So cute. But I tell people Celestial
>>>> Seasonings, and no one is inclined to even call him. Probably 'cause
>>>> they know I'm bs-ing them. Most of my acquaintances and classmates
>>>> here on campus don't even know the Golden Guy's name.
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/14, minh ha <minh.ha927 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I was very strict about not letting anyone pet Viva when I first
>>>> came home with her, but I've relaxed my stance since then. Obviously
>>>> I don't let anyone touch her when we're working, but if we're just
>>>> sitting somewhere and someone asks to pet her, I will generally let
>>>> them. I do tell them that if she gets too excited, then the meet and
>>>> greet is over. it's also a great way for me to teach her
>>>> self-control and obedience since I'll make her lay down and stay.
>>>>
>>>> Minh
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/14, The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> With Soleil, I have used petting as a practice time for self control.
>>>> She
>>>> loves people, and right at first, I knew that I was going to just
>>>> have to restrict all petting, or use the petting as an exercise.
>>>> Since I'm Deafblind, people tend to just pet because they are not
>>>> getting my attention with me by asking unless I'm with a hearing
>>>> person.
>>>> So if I have time to allow petting, I first tell her down. I tell
>>>> the person wanting to pet that she can only be pet in a down and
>>>> that if she gets up, they are to stop, I thank them for helping me
>>>> with her training, so they feel good. They pet her and then in mid
>>>> pet I ask her to come away and touch my hand and click and treat.
>>>> She is a lab, so would rather eat than lay and get petted. And her
>>>> getting up ends the session. If people pet without asking she will
>>>> turn to me.
>>>> My coworkers and friends also help in this exercise as well.
>>>> Because I'm Deafblind and a lot of my friends are deafblind, and I
>>>> work with deafblind children, she has to learn to be touched
>>>> without coming unhinged with joy. Deafblind people are a pretty
>>>> tactile lot and if a deafblind child has never seen a guide dog,
>>>> they can look at her-- with their
>>>> hands--
>>>> and learn. So far, Soleil's doing really well!
>>>>
>>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 6:41 AM, "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Generally I just say, "No, but thank you for asking." I smile and
>>>> make it seem like them asking was a wonderful thing. Then I move
>>>> on. Standing there will encourage a discussion or debate or
>>>> whatever, moving on indicates that you don't want to discuss your
>>>> no petting rule and it also reinforces that you need to get stuff
>>>> done and don't have time for petting.
>>>>
>>>> I do allow petting on occasion. If I do I let the person know
>>>> it's up to Monty if he wants to be petted. I give Monty his
>>>> release cue and let him approach if he wants. Usually he will
>>>> give the person a perfunctory sniff and he's done. Every now and
>>>> then he will back away from the person, which is kind of
>>>> embarrassing, but they get it that he doesn't want to be petted.
>>>> He's not very into meet and greet with people though, so this
>>>> works.
>>>>
>>>> Last week I was in the grocery store and there was a Mom with
>>>> about four kids. The kids wanted to pet Monty and asked their
>>>> Mom. Usually parents just say the dog is working and leave it
>>>> alone, but this Mom went on a complete tirade. I thought the kids
>>>> were perfectly well behaved in asking their Mom first if they
>>>> could approach me to ask if they could pet, but Mom really lit
>>>> into them. Then she was on to another topic and how horrible the
>>>> kids were and on and on and on. So about four isles later I
>>>> asked one of the kids if he would like to pet the dog. It made
>>>> the kids day. I can't remember the last time I've offered petting
>>>> to a kid, but I really felt bad for them.
>>>>
>>>> When I talk to people about guide dogs or if I'm doing a
>>>> presentation or something, I always stress that dogs are different
>>>> and people are different, but asking is always okay. the answer
>>>> might be no but politely asking and respecting the answer is good.
>>>> It's interesting that I rarely have issues with kids. It's adults
>>>> that have issues with self control.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Darla Rogers
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:36 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Raven and Michael; I believe, and several others have
>>>> also states this practice, just not to allow it while we are out
>>>> working.
>>>> I don't owe the general public anything; if they want to pet a
>>>> dog, the shelters are crying for volunteers to socialize their
>>>> dogs; on the other hand, if it raises money for my school. <tongue
>>>> firmly in cheek> Very Gratefully, Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>>> Hingson
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 12:40 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I do not permit anyone to pet Africa while she is in harness. If
>>>> people
>>>> want to pet her and I have the time I will remove her harness and
>>>> then allow petting. If I do not have time I politely explain that
>>>> while the harness is on she is working and cannot be petted and
>>>> that I do not have time to remove it now. Especially when people
>>>> go along with my wishes I thank them very much. If people still
>>>> insist on petting Africa I will get more stern.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Darla
>>>> Rogers
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 10:22 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Changing my Petting Policy
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The Handsome Huck is a people magnet and peo9ple are
>>>> magnets for him; there is some petting--last time going through a
>>>> revolving door--and I used to let him sit and be petted, but I
>>>> don't believe
>>>> this
>>>> is
>>>> in the best interest of our working relationship?
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas? Strategies? Explanations?
>>>>
>>>> Darla & Mister Socialite
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Darla J. Rogers
>>>>
>>>> djrogers0628 at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was
>>>> vanity:
>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raven
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Raven
>>
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