[nagdu] An Introduction

[Sean Robertson]

Zion sounds like such a sweet dog. I grue up in Denver. So I'm right with 
you on that. Nice city Denver.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Valerie Gibson via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] An Introduction


> Hi guys,
>
> Thank you all or the support and hearty welcome!
>
> To answer a couple of questions that I caught...
>
> I chose an akita because, while I love all dogs, I'm drawn to the akita. 
> I had one as a child, and he ended up becoming a "family pet".   I 
> wouldn't call my relationship with him as perfect.  I was 12 and didn't 
> entire understand the breed.  He was stubborn becaue, due to circomstance 
> beyond a tween's control, we had to move around and never finished his 
> training.
>
> There's just something magetic about the akita, and even sighted people 
> say so.  They're quiet, unless given a reason to bark. They're loyal. 
> They love children.  I know it sounds crazy, but they're noble.  It's like 
> they demand respect and respect authority when properly given.
>
> Keep in mind, i have nothing wrong with labs or retrievers, but for me, I 
> want a dog who's going to listen to my commands alone.
>
> There are times when we're walking in a store, and someone's trying to 
> whistle to my dog or make kissy noises at him.  When Zion was younger, he 
> would just have to say hello, but as he gows older, he couldn't care less. 
> His only weakness is children.  It is said that as las and goldens have an 
> afinity with balls, so does the akita with children, and it couldn't be 
> more true.  If he hears a child cry, he simply must go over and try to 
> comfort the child.  When a child is standing away from his or her parents, 
> it's that child that he has to go to and say "hi".  As a thre month old 
> puppy on our way to a puppy play time, he led me into a homeless shelter 
> for youth.  There was no food or anything like that to draw him to the 
> shelter, but for whatever reason, he wanted to go inside.  Rather than wag 
> his tail and beg for attention, he sat there and let the kids/young adults 
> come up to him.  For the first time, I felt as if he was doing all the 
> work, and I was the amazed bystander because these kids needed him.  I 
> could tell that their day was just a bit brighter for having shared it 
> with him...not me, but him.
>
> Zion doesn't trouble himself with the confident, but he seems to have an 
> eye for the outcast or distressed.  That's not to say he doesn't love 
> attention from others.  It's just that, voleontarily he'll go to those 
> people who don't seem to fit in.  It's actually kind of astounding how he 
> does this.
>
> I can always trust his insight.  I always know who has a dog at home, 
> because he loves to get attention from such people.  Sometimes, someone 
> will walk by me.  They won't say a word to me, but Zion wants absolutely 
> nothing to do with them.  If a person such as this tries to get close to 
> him, he'l back away, but he won't growl.  If the peron is actively showing 
> signs of violence, be it speech or otherwise, he'll turn toward that 
> person and bark at them.
>
> This portrayal of zion that I have given is why I chose an akita.  I love 
> having a service dog, but more than that, I love feeling safe with him, 
> and I know he feels safe with me.  I'm a small person, so that might have 
> a bit to do with it.
>
> I hoep to go into elementary school education, and having a dog that loves 
> children as much as he does is a great asset.  Since he seems to have an 
> afinity for the child who stands out from the rest, he might be able to 
> help me find children who must might need a friend.  Because I live in the 
> Denver Metro area, having a dog that makes me feel safe when I'm out and 
> about is another plus.  Labs and retrievers are great breeds, and I'm sure 
> that they do have a protective streak, but they weren't bred for this 
> purpose. Akitas were.
>
> With an akita, you cannot train with repetition.  Akitas were bred to 
> guard, protect and hunt bear and boar in the mountainous regions of Japan.
>
> So what does this mean for a guide dog?  It means that when hunting, the 
> bear or boar set the pace.  The akita had to adapt to whatever the game 
> was doing, often changing tactics to hunt down such fiercesome game. 
> Akitas are then bred to think of multiple ways of doing the same thing. 
> The tricky part is getting the akita to do the same thing all the time. I 
> use his ability to come up with his own ways of doing things to my 
> advantage.  For example, he learned quickly that he needs to find 
> alternative routes around things so that I can go with him.  Often, if we 
> come to an obsticle, I stop, tell him "go around", and I wait for as long 
> as I need to for him to find a way around it.  He's getting much faster at 
> it.
>
> If I tell zion "down", he may lay down beside me.  If he's destracted and 
> I tell him "down", he may turn to look at his distraction and then lay 
> down. acording to him, he's not breaking any rules because he is doing 
> what I said.  I've just learned to pick my battles with him, because when 
> I really need him to do something right then and there, he's more apt to 
> obey.  This seems like an opposite approach for how the less stubborn dogs 
> are taught, but akitas who are very strong willed, it's just better not to 
> nag when there's really no reason to.  I'm not entering him into any 
> obedience trials, and as long as he does what I want, that's all I care 
> about.  Though, he does know when I'm dead serious and when I'm casual.
>
> .  There are things that zion knows he can't find a work around for, 
> however.  When we're at the top of stairs, he'll either put one foot on 
> the second step and stop, or stop at the very top.  Either way, he knows 
> that he is not to move if I'm trying to find the stairs.  It's as if he 
> knows my safety is at stake.  Just today, I was carrying groceries, and 
> could not use my cane and walk with him.  I held onto his harness and 
> whereas some times he'd try his tricks to get away with something he 
> shouldn't, he knew this time that he needed to be on point, so to speak. 
> At one point he stopped.  I knew we weren't by any stairs, and when I felt 
> the pole in front of my face with my hand, he then moved me around it. 
> What was interesting to me was that he waited for me to find the pole 
> before moving me around it.  I'd never taught him to do that.
>
> It's really uplifting to me to see a puppy go from a blank slate, seven 
> week old to a dog that actually has to think about what he's doing.
>
> Because there are so many owner trainers out there, I'd love to see about 
> the NFB having an association for blind dog trainers.  But I don't know 
> how that would even be brought about.  If anyone starts one or knows  how 
> i could start one, let me know and count me in.
>
> What do you guys think?  I figured I can't be the only person who loves 
> dog training, and I applaud  those trainers who think outside the box in 
> training dogs who are otherwise thought to "not make good guides".  I love 
> the rest of you trainers who train the labs and goldens as well, and some 
> times, I envy you for not having a stubborn dog. :)
>
> I know someone mentioned an owner trainer list, but I think more action 
> should be taken to show the world that blind people can train dogs, be it 
> service dog or your average pet.  There seems to be all kinds of 
> associations in the NFB for all kinds of jobs and hobbies.  Why not dog 
> training?
>
> I know this might not mean much, but I hope to get a vidio of Zion taking 
> me to walmart and to petco, and I'd upload it onto youtube.  It would be a 
> start to show people that a blind person can train their own dog to have a 
> sighted person see it, especially since Zion's not fully trained, they 
> would get to see his flaws and see how I work with him  Then no one can 
> argue that I got him fully trained already.
>
> If anyone wants to talk training with me, email me off list and I'll give 
> my contact information.  There's not much I like talking about more than 
> dog training.
> I'd be very curious with how you guys trained your dogs.  I'm also curious 
> as to how gude dogs in schools are trained.  Like I said, there's not much 
> more I love talking about than dog training.
>
> I think that's all i can think to ramble on about.  I look forward to 
> getting to know you guys further and be provided insight into your own dog 
> training philosophies.
> For those of you who have guides from schools, never forget or take for 
> granted the people who've trained your dog to get to the point he or she 
> is at.  I don't just mean the dog trainers at the schools, but the puppy 
> raisers, the breeders and even the dogs who more than likely helped teach 
> your dog along the way.  For all of Zion's efforts, the guide dogs of my 
> friends are just as much his trainer as I am.
>
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2014, at 4:15 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Valerie,
>> Welcome to the list! I'm Raven, a college chick from West Michigan. I
>> entered the dog training world last summer, almost a year after I
>> attended GEB to obtain my first guide dog, a male golden retriever by
>> request. I was incredibly inspired by my training experience with the
>> Golden Guy. After spending a month in NY, I put the Golden Guy through
>> more training sessions to teach him what I expected of him. I worked
>> with him on finding trash cans, countertops in restaurants and stores,
>> off-leash obedience, food refusal, and extended stays with
>> distractions. Throughout the process of this training as well as
>> during my partnership with my golden, many people complimented me for
>> having such a well-behaved dog and that they wished their dog was as
>> good as mine. This inspired me to help people with having the
>> well-behaved dogs they wanted. So I started training dogs at the local
>> animal shelter using force-free methods only. I was welcomed with open
>> arms, and viewed as an asset. All the employees and families looking
>> to adopt thought I would be a natural at interacting with dogs and
>> picking up on their body language since I had experience working a
>> guide dog. I often had an audience when I would train dogs, and the
>> head of staff usually had new trainees and dog attendants come work
>> with me or just watch me to learn.
>> I too would love to train a golden of my own one day to be my guide
>> dog. As a person who is a natural health enthusiast, I would like to
>> avoid getting a guide from a program again just because I am
>> diametrically opposed to conventional rearing and most modern medical
>> practices. There is not yet a guide dog program, or any service dog
>> program, that I know of that naturally rears their animals so I would
>> love to have the experience of a naturally-reared guide dog. My
>> current guide dog experienced minor health issues due to the poisons
>> he was given in the forms of pesticides, kibble, and vaccinations, and
>> I now eschew and avoid those things.
>> Again, welcome! Hope you enjoy the great discussions here.
>>
>> On 8/21/14, Tami Jarvis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hi, Valerie, and welcome to the list.
>>>
>>> I'm Tami from Oregon, and I am working my 8-year-old owner-trained
>>> poodle guide Mitzi. I have a 17-week-old male poodle Loki in training to
>>> take over for her when she retires in a couple of years. Poodles also
>>> mature more slowly than other large dog breeds, so I'm not planning to
>>> put him to work until he is at least 2. If Mitzi wants to keep working
>>> past her 10th birthday, that will be fine, too, as it will give Loki
>>> more time to mature. Keeping both of them busy and entertained will keep
>>> me fit, if nothing else. /lol/
>>>
>>> I got Mitzi as a 7-month-old blank slate. She had been pack-raised on a
>>> small acreage, so that was a great psychological foundation for her.
>>> Bringing a wild mustang poodle to a city apartment was, well,
>>> interesting, and I despaired she would ever learn to be calm enough to
>>> take anywhere, but she finally grew up. Whew! Everybody kept telling me
>>> that blind people can't train dogs, can't train their own guides,
>>> poodles can't be trained, they sure can't be trained for that, etc.
>>> Poodles were even less plentiful as guides than they are now, so for the
>>> first couple of years, going around with her meant answering a lot of
>>> questions over and over and over... /lol/ She was also my first guide,
>>> so I learned to ignore all the people who insisted that unless one is
>>> taught by the proper authorities, one can not possibly figure out how to
>>> use a guide dog. Sigh. I got a lot of helpful advice from guide dog
>>> users and other owner-trainers and discovered it's not so impossible
>>> after all.
>>>
>>> Poodles are considered hard to train by some, but I find them almost too
>>> easy. I use positive reinforcement, so teaching a new behavior is a
>>> matter of naming it while the dog is doing it anyway, then demonstrating
>>> the cue for him to do it again and then he has it. Then after awhile, I
>>> ask him to do it somewhere else and then wait awhile and ask him
>>> somewhere else. I did try using more traditional repetitions for a
>>> couple of things with Mitzi, and that did not work out! I guess she
>>> figured I didn't want what she was doing the first time or two, so she
>>> stopped doing that and tried other things. So I no longer do repetitions
>>> with poodles! /lol/
>>>
>>> Oregon doesn't have a provision for access for trainers with dogs in
>>> training, so I will be working around that with public access training.
>>> With Mitzi, I just made arrangements at local shops, and folks were
>>> really great about graspoing what I was doing and why. I was in a great
>>> city neighborhood then, but it's trickier here because I don't have so
>>> many likely spots in easy walking distance. We've taken him a couple of
>>> times to an outdoor eatery to practice lying under my chair or the table
>>> while we eat. There's a lot of parvo in the ground here, apparently, so
>>> I've decided to play it safe and put off taking him out of the yard much
>>> until he is fully protected, which will be next week. Yay! He hasn't
>>> really started outgrowing the compliant puppy phase, so we should get
>>> some good foundation work in before he loses his brains and is too cool
>>> for rules.
>>>
>>> I haven't planned on getting a vest, although we will see when I find
>>> some businesses to take him to. Since they are not required to let us
>>> train on their premises, if they want the vest, then I will get the
>>> vest. I personally don't think it communicates anything useful, and
>>> folks can see the cane and that I am working with him as well without
>>> it. Theoretically. There are folks who can't figure out that a blind
>>> person with a working guide dog in harness is a blind person with a
>>> working guide in harness, so I don't expect much from those types either
>>> way. /shrug/ I prefer to answer questions in person when they come up
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> We had a great dog park for Mitzi's doggy socialization and for running.
>>> Here, Loki can just run in the yard with his sisters to get his energy
>>> out, and I'm considering a puppy obedience class or some such for more
>>> socialization with stranger dogs. Only when I ask around from dog people
>>> about such classes, they seem to assume I don't know how to train my pup
>>> and lecture me on how to do it, so I find that off-putting. /lol/ We'll
>>> see. I have some names to follow up on, and we will see what happens.
>>>
>>> Good luck with Zion.
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/21/2014 12:06 AM, Valerie Gibson via nagdu wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> My name is Valerie Gibson.
>>>>
>>>> I subscribed to this list about a week ago and have been silently
>>>> observing the topics discussed lately.
>>>>
>>>> I am totally blind and am in college.
>>>>
>>>> I posted an email to the students list that I will post here because it
>>>> was recommended that I do so, and I think you guys might find it pretty
>>>> cool.
>>>>
>>>> A few years back, I brought up a debatable topic--dog training.
>>>>
>>>> I tried to apply      for a dog training school and was denied on the
>>>> basis of blindness.  This sparked a debate of sorts: Can a blind person
>>>> train a dog?
>>>> I responded to a discussion post about guide dogs and training, and 
>>>> with
>>>> that in mind, I'd like to reintroduce this topic, and give you a peek 
>>>> into
>>>> what I've been doing and my accomplishments.  I'd also like to hear 
>>>> your
>>>> thoughts on the matter, and maybe some of you might have questions,
>>>> criticisms, or words of caution, all of which are fine.
>>>> I'm also going to talk about why i decided to do what I've been doing.
>>>> Understand though that just because I do this does not mean that 
>>>> everyone
>>>> should. I just thought I'd take this on, and it's working. I pray it 
>>>> stays
>>>> that way.
>>>> So, dog truing...
>>>> I've always loved it since I was a kid.  I love learning how animals 
>>>> think
>>>> and learn.  I love studying animal behavior through written 
>>>> observations
>>>> and applying ecology, sociology and psychology of animals to this.
>>>> My outlook on dogs is this: Dogs are not people. They are not furry
>>>> children. They are beings who speak a different language, share a
>>>> different culture and have a different mindset that we do.  Dogs don't
>>>> just need a leader, they want one, and some more than others.  Even a 
>>>> soft
>>>> tempered dog will try to take over leadership position if it feels 
>>>> there
>>>> is no one to guide it. Hard tempered dogs will try more forcefully to 
>>>> take
>>>> over this spot, because their mothers or other "leaders" were made of
>>>> sterner stuff.
>>>> I don't want to bore you with a dog training guide, but that's just the
>>>> tip of the ice burg for my philosophy.
>>>> Last december, I purchased a seven and a half week old akita puppy in 
>>>> the
>>>> hopes that I could train it as a guide dog.  I have my reasons for 
>>>> wanting
>>>> the akita.
>>>> The easiest way to get a guide dog would obviously be going to a 
>>>> school.
>>>> Let me say first that I am, in no way, opposed to guide dog schools.
>>>> Having never been to one, I can not make a judgement call on their
>>>> training methods, but given that there are many schools, there are
>>>> probably just as many training methods for their dogs.
>>>> I didn't, not, go with a school because I wanted to go rogue and didn't
>>>> want to follow their rules, though I think some of the rules (from what
>>>> i've heard) are unnecessary.  Again, having never been to a school, I
>>>> would like to add that that that can be taken with a grain of sault.
>>>> I think guide dog schools are great for people who are taking on a dog 
>>>> for
>>>> the first time or for people who just don't want to put in the time and
>>>> effort in training their dogs to guide, or for people who simply don't
>>>> know how.  I applaud guide dog trainers for their work in training tens 
>>>> of
>>>> dogs at a time to go with handlers who have various life styles.
>>>> So if training a guide dog would be harder, take up more time, and cost
>>>> more money than just getting one from a school, why not get one from a
>>>> school?
>>>> First I understand dog psychology and how to train a dog.  Every 
>>>> trainer
>>>> has their own philosophy, so mine might be different from your's for
>>>> example.  I also wanted to see if I could do it. If Zion did not become 
>>>> a
>>>> guide dog, no big deal. At least he would be a very well behaved house
>>>> pet.  So I wasn't hell bent on this dog becoming a guide dog.
>>>> So a week before christmas, I brought home this akita puppy.  I made 
>>>> sure
>>>> that the breeder gave me one with the temperament that I was wanting
>>>> rather than it's appearance.
>>>> Zion's training began the moment I brought him home with crate training
>>>> and overall good house manners.  He never got any extra privileges 
>>>> until
>>>> he'd proven to respond favorable to the ones he had.  For example, he
>>>> stayed in his crate unless he was playing or training. Never did he get 
>>>> to
>>>> run around the house.  Every three hours, even if he was sleeping, he 
>>>> was
>>>> made to take a potty break.  This often meant me setting an alarm to 
>>>> make
>>>> sure that I got up.  It's a good thing I was on christmas break from
>>>> school. :)
>>>> Once he let me know when he had to go out, and as he grew, his potty
>>>> breaks were at longer intervals.  Once he could entertain himself in 
>>>> his
>>>> kennel, he was allowed to entertain himself in one room of my house, 
>>>> and
>>>> for only half an hour.
>>>> Slowly he got more and more privileges.  When he was a puppy and hardly
>>>> had any rights in the home, I would let anyone pet him when we were in
>>>> public.
>>>> What you have to understand is that akitas are very hard to train. They 
>>>> an
>>>> be trained, and yes, labs and goldens and german shepherds are easier, 
>>>> but
>>>> I knew what I was dealing with when I took on an akita.  I believe in
>>>> trainability, they rank number 48. They learn slower than a lab or
>>>> retriever, and if not handled correctly, they can be aggressive to 
>>>> other
>>>> dogs and people. They have a natural instinct to guard and protect and
>>>> often times, they have a mind of their own. Training an akita is very
>>>> different than training a lab or retriever.  I do not believe in the
>>>> training method that one size fits all, so the way I'd train an akita 
>>>> is
>>>> probably not the way I'd train a lab, retriever, brittany, etc.
>>>> Akitas also reach physical and psychological maturation a year or so 
>>>> later
>>>> than a lab or retriever.  Akitas are not for the novic dog owner also.
>>>> You, HAVE, to know what you're doing when you work with these dogs.
>>>> Again, if trained incorrrectly, or if they don't see you as the leader, 
>>>> it
>>>> won't go well for you.  Akitas are also prone to health conditions if 
>>>> you
>>>> don't breed responsibly or purchase from a reputable breeder.
>>>> When I started training Zion, i got a lot of frowns (and I'm sure some 
>>>> eye
>>>> rolling) from both blind and sighted people.
>>>> I stopped going to a puppy obedience class for personal reasons on my 
>>>> part
>>>> and medical reasons on the part of the dog By the time I stopped going 
>>>> to
>>>> a puppy socialization class, I'd gotten down the basics and was going 
>>>> to
>>>> teach my dog on my own.
>>>> Zion went with me almost everywhere, and he hung out almost entirely 
>>>> with
>>>> guide dogs.  I used a dog that I'd previously trained to teach him
>>>> commands, because it was a very quick way for him to learn.  He learned 
>>>> a
>>>> lot from the guide dogs too.  When he was three months, he was potty
>>>> trained, and he could lie under tables at restaurants and not be a 
>>>> bother
>>>> (though I'm sure the fellow dogs under the table with him would
>>>> disagree.).
>>>> Allow me to take a quick detour in the writing.
>>>> There's a lot of hype about people taking their pets, buying a "service
>>>> dog in training" patch and some "documentation", and claiming their 
>>>> dog's
>>>> a service dog.  This royally ticks me off, probably more than i t would
>>>> for you who has a guide dog.
>>>> It gives people like me a bad name because I've got about just as much
>>>> resource to back it up as they do, with the addition that my dog speaks
>>>> for himself.  For another, I've put a lot of time into this dog's
>>>> training. For another, this dog has cost me roughly 3 thousand dollars
>>>> right now, and he's only mine months, and that's not including the 
>>>> medical
>>>> issues we've been battling.  I completely understand and agree with
>>>> service dog trainer's feelings when it comes to this issue because I 
>>>> know
>>>> they're putting more money and work into the dogs than I am.
>>>> I've heard that soon businesses will have a legal right to see
>>>> documentation on service animals, and I agree with this. If it were
>>>> possible to provide documentation to show that my dog is indeed a 
>>>> service
>>>> dog in training, you'd better believe I'd jump on that immediately.
>>>> Now that that is said, I took zion almost everywhere with me.  As his
>>>> restrictions got less and less at home, they got stricter in public. 
>>>> Now,
>>>> people had to ask me to pet him, and they could only do so if he sat 
>>>> down
>>>> politely.
>>>> When he was about seven months, he began to wear a harness with 
>>>> "service
>>>> dog in training" patches on each side of it.  By this time, he was used 
>>>> to
>>>> going places with me, and he knew what I expected out of him.  Did that
>>>> mean that he did not test me? Absolutely not!
>>>> He wore the harness at first to get used to the feel of it, but he was
>>>> still walked on leash.  At night, when no one was around, i walked him 
>>>> up
>>>> and down the corridors of my apartment to teach him what it would feel
>>>> like for someone to be holding onto the harness.  Luckily the apartment
>>>> has pretty distinct left and right turns, and even at nine months, 
>>>> we're
>>>> still working on those.
>>>> The first break through for me came on August second.  I'd let him 
>>>> guide
>>>> me before to the train station or to the front office, but I always had 
>>>> my
>>>> cane out.  This time, I was not going to use my cane at all.
>>>> Dangerous? sure, but if i didn't give him, and myself, a test, how 
>>>> would I
>>>> know what he'd learned.
>>>> Apart from getting distracted a few times, he led me to the train, 
>>>> guiding
>>>> me around planters and pausing at stairs.
>>>> I knew that this didn't mean that he could guide me anywhere. It just
>>>> meant he had the idea of what he was supposed to do.
>>>> If things are too distracting for him, I'd never let him do that, but 
>>>> if I
>>>> feel that he can work and there are not too many distractions, I will
>>>> trust him to guide me.  I will never put him in a situation where he 
>>>> would
>>>> fail as a guide because he is still in the learning and correcting 
>>>> phase.
>>>> That's another thing. Having never had a guide dog before, it was my
>>>> responsibility to have trust in my training and in him, and that was a 
>>>> big
>>>> step for me too.
>>>> Since then, zion has guided me to the front office of my apartment, to 
>>>> the
>>>> train, to walmart, to petco and back to my apartment.  These are places
>>>> that I know really well, so it's easy for me to correct him when I know
>>>> he's made a wrong turn or is distracted.  Zion can find petco better 
>>>> than
>>>> I can with a cane. Imagine that. :)
>>>> At some point soon, I am hoping to get certified with the association 
>>>> of
>>>> professional dog Trainers so that I can train other people dogs and 
>>>> maybe
>>>> see if the NFB can't have a national association of blind dog trainers.
>>>> :)
>>>> This certification would also give me some credibility in the work that 
>>>> he
>>>> will be doing.  Right now, it's very difficult to find a trainer who 
>>>> will
>>>> back you if you're a blind person training your own dog.  Throw on a
>>>> "service dog" title, and it's almost impossible.The only thing that I
>>>> would not train when it comes to dogs is dogs with aggression issues. 
>>>> I
>>>> think that this is where a blind person must draw the line.  Dogs
>>>> communicate through body language, and it's easy to tell what body
>>>> language the dog is giving off but with aggression, you need to know, 
>>>> and
>>>> you can't afford to make a wrong move.  One could argue that a growl is 
>>>> a
>>>> sign of aggression, but that's not always the case, and if it is, the 
>>>> dog
>>>> has given off a few body signals before the growl that a trainer must
>>>> notice.  You never want to get to a point where your dog feels the need 
>>>> to
>>>> growl because that's usually the last signal it will give before
>>>> snapping.
>>>> I'd be interested to hear any feedback from dog lovers.  If anyone has 
>>>> any
>>>> questions, I'd be eager to try and answer them, but I i do not have all
>>>> the answers.  Zion's training is no where near finished, but even 
>>>> sighted
>>>> people tell me: "he's come a long way as a puppy."  I once was told by
>>>> someone that they had reservations that I was really training him as a
>>>> guide dog, but they can see thahaht he would make a good guide dog.
>>>> If anyone has trained their own guide dog, please email me. I'd love to
>>>> hear of your experiences, and throw around some ideas on how best to
>>>> train.  If there are any sighted dog trainers who'd be willing to think
>>>> outside the box in regards to a blind person training their own dog, 
>>>> I'd
>>>> be honored to hear from you.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I hope it was enlightening
>>>> and not too boring. :)
>>>>
>>>> If you want me to keep you posted on Zion's training, I can do that.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone have a good rest of the day and good luck in school next
>>>> semester. :)
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for reading my Not so brief introduction. :)
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> -- 
>> Raven
>> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
>> http://dogtorj.com
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