[nagdu] Rules Regarding Pet Dogs was RE: New Jersey Lawsregarding guide dogs being attacked
Nicole Torcolini
ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sat Aug 23 19:26:55 UTC 2014
Drop it.
Leave it.
Just kidding. On a more serious note, the discussion about how to dogs
growling at a guide dog can continue, but please continue it so that the
incident that I described is no longer the center. I am going to try to
clarify a few things; then, unless I bring it up again, I do not want to
hear any more about the incident that I described that is directed at me.
First, the original email that I wrote was a deliberately extremely vague
anecdote that was meant to help another list member consider how existing
regulations might be used to help a situation. If I had in the least bit
anticipated that it was going to lead to further discussion, I would not
have posted it.
If there are not a lot of details about a situation, then it might be better
to get more information about the situation before starting to throw
unsolicited advice at it. Or, perhaps, as I said above, the person does not
want advice and was deliberately vague.
Here is the complete story. There is no more, so please do not ask me for
more details.
I was waiting in the lobby in front of the reception desk for the car to
come pick me up to take me to a different building to get my lunch. A lady
came in the building with her dog and, as she was passing me, her dog
growled at Lexia in what sounded like an aggressive way. The receptionist
said that the lady pulled the dog, who was a Golden Retriever, away. The
receptionist then gave me the name of the person; she knew because the
person had been in our building before, and I am pretty sure that the dog
had been with the person before, so the whole new environment thing is not
really a possibility. There was not time to talk to the person. What people
do not realize is that, in addition to pulling the dog away, they could say
something like, "The dog is on a leash".
I know that there are things that I cannot see that might be important, but
I cannot see them, and that is that. Asking another person, especially
someone who does not know that much about dogs, is not going to help. They
saw what they saw, and, unless you prepped them ahead of time, it is
unlikely that they would have seen any warning signs, especially since
things can happen so fast sometimes.
And, no, I do not think that Lexia gets that everyone is not her friend. She
will wiggle and wag at anyone, friendly or not. Things were happening too
fast to allow for discussion.
I know what to do when another dog growls at my guide dog.
Pet dogs are pet dogs. Bringing them to work is a privilege, not a right.
There are rules that are supposed to be followed. It specifically says in
the rules that there are certain behaviors for which a person might be asked
to remove the dog. I did what it said in the rules, which is to contact a
certain person if there are any concerns. The situation was supposedly
resolved. No, I do not know what the resolution is, but it is what it is. If
the person shows up again with the dog again and history repeats itself,
then I will something different, although I am not sure what at this point.
I will cross that bridge if I ever get there. There are several reasons why
I did not try to take care of this myself, and I am not going to discuss
them here.
And, finally, as some of this conversation seems to have stemmed from
something that I wrote in my signature line, just because I write it in my
signature line does not necessarily mean that it is what I am thinking. The
part written after Lexia's name is meant to be funny or occasionally
pathetic or otherwise.
Nicole
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson
via nagdu
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 9:59 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Rules Regarding Pet Dogs was RE: New Jersey
Lawsregarding guide dogs being attacked
I agree with barb here. You don't know what lexia did. If it was an
anxious dog, sometimes having another dog look at it will make it growl. I
don't like pulling the whole, "you didn't see what happened", but when it
comes to aggression be it nervous aggression or territorial or otherwise,
you kind of have to because, even for a sighted trainer or handler, body
language that is nonverbal is super important and you don't know what body
language the other dog was giving off, coupled with what your dog was doing
unless you were contiously keeping an eye out.
Does that mean that it was okay for the dog to growl? by human standards,
I'd say no. And I agree that if the dog was nervous aggressive, the owner
should do the dog a favor and not put the dog in a situation where it feels
so nervous. That being said, your dog is not stupid. I don't mean to sound
mean here, but I doubt she's like, "oh no! (sob) Why is the meanie bully
growling at me?" While the dog may be a bully (in a pack position it can't
handle) your dog knows why it growled. They understand their culture better
than we do.
You might not have known the owner, but you were obviously close enough to
hear the growl. you could have asked if the dog was aggresive (though most
owners will lie to you about that), or if that dog was nervous around other
dogs.
I once had a well known person's guide dog growl and snap at my puppy once
when he was about 3 months. Zion may have just looked at this dog, but what
was I going to do? Tell this person that she couldn't bring her guide dog
around?
It can be flustering when a dog growls at your dog, but staying calm is the
only thing you can do. Get in front of yoru dog and adopt a "this dog is
mine. don't you come near it" aditude might tell the other dog that you're
in charge. If you're not comfortable doing that, make sure your dog's focus
is on you and ignore the dog. This sends a message to your dog that you're
not worried, it shouldn't be either.
You also never said what the owner of the dog did once the dog growl. If
the owner did nothing, you could ask that he or she control the dog. I
don't care if you don't know this person. it's no excuse for an owner not to
keep an eye and ear to what their dog is doing.
Just my thoughts.
On Aug 23, 2014, at 10:23 AM, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> Okay, maybe I should have given more information. I know what makes
> dogs growl, thank you very much. I was standing in the lobby with
> Lexia, minding my own business as was Lexia, when the other person
> came in with the other dog. I do not think that Lexia did anything to
> make the other dog growl unless she made eye contact with it. Given
> that the person was not from my building, I could not just go talk to
> the person. And, for the record, if the dog was alone, that would also
> have been grounds for reporting it as it is against the rules to leave
> a dog alone. And, no, it was not the first time that the dog had been
> there. And, even if it had been, it would not have been an excuse for
> the dog growling. If you have a pet dog that you know gets excited to
> the point of growling at other dogs when you take it new places, then
> you don't take it a place like work where the primary activity is work,
not dog behavior.
>
> Nicole
>
> _____
>
> From: barbandzoe at comcast.net [mailto:barbandzoe at comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 8:59 AM
> To: clarebearwest at gmail.com; sofiagallo13 at gmail.com; NAGDU Mailing
> List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users; Nicole Torcolini
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Rules Regarding Pet Dogs was RE: New Jersey Laws
> regarding guide dogs being attacked
>
>
> I don't know what the two were doing, but if your dog can to close and
> other felt a bit nervous they could growl. If that dog had a toy or
> food or something he was chewing on, he might think he has to defend
> it. He maybe was just telling your dog that , this is my space and my
> people, so don't bother them.
> Just because a dog growls doesn't mean they are mean.
> If the dog doesn't go to work everyday like yours, this is very
> exciting and they don't know quit where they fit in.
> Was the owner at the dest? If the dog was by himself he may have been
> frightened of being alone, and then another dog he doesn't know comes
> by and he gets nervous .
>
> Talk to the owner, and if the dogs will be crossing paths, maybe you
> two should let the dogs meet each other.
> Barb
>
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: Nicole Torcolini via nagdu
> To: sofiagallo13 at gmail.com, 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users', clarebearwest at gmail.com
> Sent: August 22, 2014 at 9:54 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Rules Regarding Pet Dogs was RE: New Jersey Laws
> regarding guide dogs being attacked
>
> Sofia,
>
> Are there any rules about pet dogs? Where I work, people are allowed
> to bring their pet dogs, but there are certain rules that they are
> supposed to follow. I do not know how many people read the rules, and,
> of those, how many follow them, but they can get in trouble for not
> following them. I had an incident last Friday where one of the pet
> dogs growled at Lexia. I reported it, and it was supposedly resolved,
> but they did not say exactly what was done.
>
> Nicole and sweet Lexia who is wondering why the mean doggy growled at
> her
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of sofia via
> nagdu
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 7:31 PM
> To: Cindy Ray via nagdu; clarebearwest at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [nagdu]New Jersey Laws regarding guide dogs being
> attacked
>
> Hi!
>
>
> Here is the New Jersey law: Dusty's Law. I believe it is one of the
> most comprehensive in the country and NFB helped pass it.
>
>
> I go to college in NJ and people from town love to walk their dogs off
> leash around my campus and ignore them until they have already done
> something wrong. Nothing beyond getting us distracted has happened
> yet, but honestly, it’s a recipe for disaster if people not only walk
> their dogs off leash but also stop paying attention to what they are
doing.
>
>
> Sofia
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Cindy Ray via nagdu
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 10:21 PM
> To: Cindy Ray via nagdu
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi everyone! Tonight I was out on a walk with Quincy and for the third
> time in a week someone's rot Wiler got loose. But this time the dog
> charged Quincy and attacked him. The Dragos are knocked my mom over.
> We called the police and they came out and spoke with us. They also
> spoke with the dogs owners. We have 30 days to file a complaint. I
> will definitely do that. I was wondering if New Jersey has any laws
> regarding service dogs being attacked. The reason the dogs keep
> getting Moose is because their owner does not fix their fence.
> Instead, they just temporarily try to prevent the dogs from escaping.
> The police told them they must get their fence fixed. So hopefully
> they will. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. By the way, when
> she was not injured in anyway. I did call the school to let the
> director know what has occurred. I am hoping that Quincy will not be
> skittish around other dogs! I am sure the director will call me on Monday
morning. Thank you all for your support and help.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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