[nagdu] Names was Re: German guide dog system

Fri Aug 29 20:12:31 UTC 2014

The name of the mystery person Star Gazer is Rebecca. I am not the moderator, but, in accordance with list rules, and for the sake of the sanity of the list members, plea sign your emails.

Nicole

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 29, 2014, at 11:49 AM, Lisa via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi Star Gazer!

well, normally, the criteria to get a guide dog in Germany are the following:
- being blind or VI and having a doctor diagnosing this
- having the ability to walk and handle a dog physically and mentally (often examined by a mobility teacher)
- living under circumstances where a dog can live with you (noone in your household having an allergy with dog hair, having places where the dog can relieve himself in your surrounding...)

OK, if you match these criteria, a guide dog school will match you with a dog and you will inform the health insurance that you would like to get him or her. Then, the health insurance should pay the cost for the whole training to the school and that's it. But the way health insurances are working here aren't that simple and following logical ways. So even if all criteria are fulfilled undoubtedly, they will try and find reasons why they won't pay. Like in my case, they said: "Well, you got along without a guide dog for years now, so why would you need one now? We can't see this in the documents you sent in" or some nonsense like this. It is sad and might sound rude but this is really how it works here. I know so many people who had so bad problems during their process of getting their dog.

We do have laws that say a service dog is allowed in any public place. But Hi Star Gazer!

well, normally, the criteria to get a guide dog in Germany are the following:
- being blind or VI and having a doctor diagnosing this
- having the ability to walk and handle a dog physically and mentally (often examined by a mobility teacher)
- living under circumstances where a dog can live with you (noone in your household having an allergy with dog hair, having places where the dog can relieve himself in your surrounding...)

OK, if you match these criteria, a guide dog school will match you with a dog and you will inform the health insurance that you would like to get him or her. Then, the health insurance should pay the cost for the whole training to the school and that's it. But the way health insurances are working here aren't that simple and following logical ways. So even if all criteria are fulfilled undoubtedly, they will try and find reasons why they won't pay. Like in my case, they said: "Well, you got along without a guide dog for years now, so why would you need one now? We can't see this in the documents you sent in" or some nonsense like this. It is sad and might sound rude but this is really how it works here. I know so many people who had so bad problems during their process of getting their dog.

We do have laws that say a service dog is allowed in any public place. But we also have a law that says the owner of a shop has the right to decide what happens on his property. So sometimes these both laws stand against each other. Of course you could then go to a lawyer and sue the shop owner, but most of the time, you rather decide to go to a nicer place because it's really a minority of people who behave that way.

Hope my explanation helped. :-)
Lisa
----- Original Message ----- From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
To: "'Lisa'" <dreamymarmot93 at yahoo.de>; "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 5:11 PM
Subject: RE: [nagdu] German guide dog system

Hi Lisa.
Can you explain what criteria your health insurance uses to decide if they
will pay for a guide dog? And how does the payment work,do they pay the
school for the cost of the dog?
Also, it sounds like you don't have legal protection with your dog, your
comment about "Just going to another establishment" is what makes me think
so. Am I right?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lisa via nagdu
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 9:11 AM
To: Buddy Brannan; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users; Julie McGinnity
Subject: Re: [nagdu] German guide dog system

Hello everyone!

I'm glad so many of you appreciated my explanation about German guide dogs.
:-) I love to learn things about different cultures, too, and it's great to
read so much about guide dogs in the US on here so I can understand that.

Julie, you're completely right. Access rights for guide dogs here in Germany
are quite advanced I'd say. So you can take your dog on any train, bus or
other public transport vehicle without problems. Normally, they're also
allowed in any supermarket, restaurant or such. But of course, there are the
owners of different shops who try to avoid that. Then they say since it's
their property, a public law doesn't matter and you should leave with your
dog. But luckily, this doesn't happen very often and so you pretty much have
the choice to then go to another shop or café where the people are more
open-minded.

The thing that Germans don't get guide dogs isn't true, as you already
pointed out. But I'm really of the impression, that it is, indeed, alot
harder to get one here than in other countries. But as I said, this is only
a matter of health insurance companies. So I feel so blessed that I'm
through with this fight now. I'm counting down the days until Taylor comes.
14 by now. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddy Brannan via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Julie McGinnity" <kaybaycar at gmail.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the
National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 3:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] German guide dog system

> Oh the irony. Being as how guide dogs originated in Germany, at least
> as we know them today, and at that time before the 2nd World War
> war-blinded vets with their guide dogs had similar access rights to
> public transport and so on, at least from what I read, that Germans "don't
get guide dogs"
> seems pretty ironic to me.
> 
> Of course, when I was there about 19 years ago, I saw exactly one
> blind couple, but I was also not in one of the cities, like Marburg,
> where a lot of the blind folks apparently hang out. But then, too, it
> seemed to me that the general public had a somewhat different attitude
> towards me than what I experience here. I can't explain it exactly though.
>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 9:28 PM, Julie McGinnity via nagdu
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Lisa,
>> 
>> This is fascinating to know!  I was in Germany about 5 years ago, and
>> I was told by a few different people that Germans just didn't get
>> guide dogs.  Of course, I knew that some of them had to have guides,
>> but you helped me understand why many don't.  I was a German major as
>> an undergraduate, and I studied German for about 10 years, so your
>> post was particularly interesting to me.
>> 
>> Lisa, please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I remember, the
>> access laws are pretty similar to what they here.  You can have your
>> dog on public transportation and in any other type of public
>> establishment.  I remember though that our exchange program was with
>> a gymnasium (private high school), and they would *not* allow me to
>> be there with my dog.  I do want to go back to Germany someday and
>> maybe even take my dog this time!  :)
>> 
>>> On 8/21/14, Mária Orovčíková <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello Lisa and all,
>>> I live in Slovakia (Central Europe) and the guide dog training here
>>> is pretty similar like in Germany in some ways.
>>> Firstly, the health insurance, or better to say government
>>> organization pay for guide dogs and other aids for us, blind people
>>> and people with other disabilities.
>>> As for training, we have two guide dog schools here in Slovakia, but
>>> we do home training only which takes about two weeks. In case there
>>> are some issues after training, we can always contact the trainer
>>> and ask for help.
>>> The school I have my guide from organizes meetups for guide dog
>>> handlers three times a year, where people waiting for their guide
>>> meet their potential guide dog partners and see them during their
training.
>>> As for ownership, we get ful ownership once training is finished.
>>> If you have some more questions, just feel free to ask.
>>> With regards
>>> Maria
>>> Sent from iphone
>>> 
>>> Dňa 21.8.2014, o 5:12, debby phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> napísal:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Lisa, thank you so much for sharing about the schools in Germany.
>>>> I'm
>>>> so glad that you have been approved and that you and Taylor go into
>>>> training soon.  I think working from home would be wonderful!    Debby
>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri
>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the
>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only
>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>> eternal life."
>> John 3:16
>> 
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> 
> 
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