[nagdu] Passenger with pig boards flightatBradleyInternationalAirport, only to learn it couldn't fly

[Larry D Keeler]

I saw the article on tv last night. The pig squealed and took a dump on the 
plane. I'm wondering what kind of emotional support requires that!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J. via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the 
National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2014 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Passenger with pig boards 
flightatBradleyInternationalAirport, only to learn it couldn't fly


>I wasn't trying to be judgmental when I asked why she had a pig for an 
>emotional support animal.  I meant the question sincerely.  My 
>understanding has always been that if you have some sort of animal that 
>provides emotional support or service work, it is to increase your 
>opportunity or to make your life easier in some way.  For me I have a guide 
>dog because it is more physically comfortable and also because I feel 
>smoother in my ability to travel.  If my dog didn't increase my independent 
>travel there would be no point to having one.
>
> So my question is the same for the emotional support pig.  It seems that 
> she would want an emotional support animal to make her air travel possible 
> or less traumatic or more emotionally pleasant or whatever.  It also seems 
> that the choice of a pig is going to create drama, taking away from her 
> flying experience, causing unpleasantness and emotional distress.  So I 
> just can't figure out why the choice of a pig.
>
> Yes, I know this is a news article, that we don't have the whole story, 
> that a lot of details are probably left out and we will never know all the 
> facts, but this is a discussion list and I am tossing the question out for 
> discussion.
>
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole Torcolini via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 11:17 PM
> To: 'Valerie Gibson' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of 
> Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Passenger with pig boards flight 
> atBradleyInternationalAirport, only to learn it couldn't fly
>
> Thank you Valery; you said most of what I was thinking. Two things to add,
> though.
> There is nothing wrong with the ACAA. As Valery stated, someone
> might an emotional support animal while flying. The way to solve the 
> problem
> is education, and, JMHO, there was not any educating to be done in this
> case. Why is it that we say that the law should not be changed and 
> education
> is the answer when it is concerning service animals, but, whenever 
> emotional
> support animals come into the picture, we immediately say that the law
> should be changed. It was a pig. So what? JMHO, this article should never
> have been written. The same thing could have happened to someone with a
> service dog. If an animal is out of control, the handler has to remove it.
> The airline/airport personnel did not do anything wrong.
> Also, it is very judgmental and rude to assume that you know what
> people need. Sometimes, an animal can do something that medicine cannot.
> Even if the medicine can do what an animal would do, sometimes, having an
> animal makes it where the person does not need the medicine, which, JMHO, 
> is
> better for several reasons.
>
> Nicole
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Valerie Gibson
> via nagdu
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 2:17 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Passenger with pig boards flight at
> BradleyInternationalAirport, only to learn it couldn't fly
>
> Okay here's my thoughts.
>
> This may come aross as very rude at first so bear with me.
>
> First, I find it incredibly rude for someone to say, "Yeah, she's doing 
> this
> for attention".  You don't kow this lady.  You don't know what support she
> may need.  You don't know why she needs a pig. Maybe she's alergic to 
> dogs.
> Maybe she lives on a farm. Maybe she just likes pigs.
>
> Pigs are in the top 3 smartest animals in the world.   Maybe she figured a
> pig would be better than a dog in this regard.
>
> This is the second time I'e heard snips like, "this person is doing X for
> attention", and it gets old quick.
>
> That being said, I don't find it wrong to be like, "why would you do this 
> if
> not for attention?" becasue that's still a question-something that can
> probably be explained, or at least debated.
>
> Okay, that's al my ranting.  Here's my oppinion on the matter at hand.
>
> I do think it's odd that a pig would b e chosen to be an emotional support
> animal, but I can see the appeal, not for the attention aspect but because
> pigs are so smart.  I don't know much about pigs to say that they would 
> make
> great ESA's but I won't say, "no a pig could never be used".
>
> ESA's in my opinion are alreay treading a grey area in regards to where 
> they
> can go, and I don't think it would be wrong for an air flight personel to
> say, "no you can't take the pig".  However, since flying is a very real 
> fear
> for some people, I can see why someone might want an ESA on the flight.
>
> What we should really be focusing on is that the pig was disruptive.  Just
> with that alone, I'd highly doubt it was a service animal or at least one
> that was not kept up on training.
>
> Julie you bring up a good point as to why a person with a mental problem
> would chose a pig as an ESA, and due to the disruptive nature of the pig, 
> it
> might not have been an ESA at all, but there's so much the article leaves
> out that it's hard for any of us to really make a judgement call on this.
>
> Having a pig as an ESA isn't what gives us a bad name in regards to 
> service
> animals; it's that the pig was disruptive and the lady was claiming it was 
> a
> service animal.
>
> Okay, i could probably say more, but I need to work on my preps for 
> finals.
>
>
>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 3:19 PM, Joe via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know. I think a monkey would be kind of neat. LOL Seriously
> though. I think people often run well past the definition of what is
> considered an emotional support animal. They make it that much more
> difficult for people who seriously need a standard service animal. I'm 
> kind
> of the opinion, and I get I'll be the minority here, that if you need an
> animal around you to keep you on the rails, you probably need more
> medication for everyone's general safety more than you need a nuisance
> animal that makes it harder for people with seeing, hearing and seizure
> disabilities to access public establishments.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> --
>> Musings of a Work in Progress:
>> www.JoeOrozco.com/ <http://www.joeorozco.com/>
>>
>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of Brett Sample via nagdu
>> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 10:36 AM
>> To: Julie J.; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Passenger with pig boards flight at Bradley
>> InternationalAirport, only to learn it couldn't fly
>>
>> I thought that too Julie? Some people won't like what I have to say, but,
> here goes. When people use emotional support animals, such as a pig or
> monkey, other people think of it as a "Service" animal and because of that
> it can cause problems for everyone. I think it might be time to update the
> ACAA and FHA to reflect the ADA.
>>
>>
>> Brett
>>> On Nov 29, 2014, at 9:36 AM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Okay folks, it's stupid question time...
>>>
>>> If a person has a mental or emotional condition so serious that an
> emotional support animal is necessary, why then would the person choose a
> pig?  She has to know that a pig is going to cause people to ask a lot of
> questions and create drama where ever she goes.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Ginger Kutsch via nagdu
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 8:21 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Passenger with pig boards flight at Bradley
>>> InternationalAirport, only to learn it couldn't fly
>>>
>>> Passenger with pig boards flight at Bradley International Airport,
>>> only to learn it couldn't fly
>>>
>>> By  Dwight B. Shepard | dshepard at repub.com
>>>
>>> November 28, 2014
>>>
>>> Source:
>>> http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/11/passenger_with_pig_boa
>>> r
>>> ds_fli
>>> g.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You've heard the expression, "when pigs fly" haven't you?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's is an adynaton, or, a figure of speech, if you will, so
>>> hyperbolic that it describes an impossibility. It's used for
>>> humorously, when someone wants to make fun of over-ambition.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But a passenger at Bradley International Airport, in Windsor Locks,
>>> Connecticut, wasn't kidding when she boarded a US Airways flight with
>>> a pig in tow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan Skolnik, a professor at the University of Massachusetts at
>>> Amherst told ABC News he thought the woman with the pig was carrying
>>> a duffel bag when she got on the plane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Skolnick, a passenger on the plane, became quite concerned when the
>>> woman, and her pig, headed straight for the empty seat next to him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "But it turns out it wasn't a duffel bag. We could smell it and it
>>> was a pig on a leash," he told ABC. "She tethered it to the arm rest
>>> next to me and started to deal with her stuff, but the pig was walking
> back and forth."
>>>
>>> "I was terrified, because I was thinking I'm gonna be on the plane
>>> with the pig," Snolnik added, saying he guesses the pig weighed
>>> between 50 and 70 pounds.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another passenger on the flight commented on ABC's website, "This was
>>> the most surreal flying experience of my life. How are animals of
>>> this size allowed in a passenger compartment of an airplane? This
>>> should not be permitted."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to Britain's Daily Mail newspaper, the woman had the pig as
>>> an emotional support animal, but was asked to leave the plane after
>>> it became disruptive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Department of Transportation has certain guidelines concerning
>>> animals, including pigs, monkeys and miniature horses, that can be
>>> taken on flights if they are determined to be needed as emotional
>>> support for a person. TSA officials are supposed to determine whether
>>> the animal is permitted on the plane by running through a list of
> guidelines, the newsaper reported.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Pigs are favored service animals for people allergic to dogs," the
>>> Daily Mail wrote. "Guidelines suggest they are intelligent companions
>>> and attuned to dangerous situations."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to a 2012 CNCNews.com report, airlines must let passengers
>>> fly with pigs if they are for such emotional support. The department
>>> published a manual in July of that year designed to "help carriers
>>> and indirect carriers and their employees/contractors that provide
>>> services or facilities to passengers with disabilities, assist those
> passengers in accordance with"
>>> the Air Carrier Access Act.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is a scenario described in the manual.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "A passenger arrives at the gate accompanied by a pot-bellied pig.
>>> She claims that the pot-bellied pig is her service animal. What should
> you do?"
>>>
>>> "Generally, you must permit a passenger with a disability to be
>>> accompanied by a service animal," reads the manual. "However, if you
>>> have a reasonable basis for questioning whether the animal is a
>>> service animal, you may ask for some verification."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The manual instructs airline carriers and their employees to begin by
>>> asking questions about the animal's training and what service it
>>> performs for the individual.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "If you are not satisfied with the credibility of the answers to
>>> these questions or if the service animal is an emotional support or
>>> psychiatric service animal, you may request further verification," the
> guidebook states.
>>> "You should also call a CRO [Complaints Resolution Official] if there
>>> is any further doubt as to whether the pot-bellied pig is the
>>> passenger's service animal."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the answers are satisfactory, pigs, which can weigh as much as 300
>>> pounds, must be accepted aboard the plane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Finally, if you determine that the pot-bellied pig is a service
>>> animal, you must permit the service animal to accompany the passenger
>>> to her seat provided the animal does not obstruct the aisle or
>>> present any safety issues and the animal is behaving appropriately in
>>> a public setting," the manual states.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, I guess, some pigs can fly.
>>>
>>>
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>>> Offbeat news
>>>
>>> Passenger with pig boards flight at Bradley International Airport,
>>> only to learn it couldn't fly
>>>
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>>> hot tea
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>>> Newest | Oldest
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>>> estep11
>>>
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>>>
>>> estep11
>>>
>>> 13 minutes ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This won't be an FAA issue as soon as they sit the swine next to
>>> muslim passengers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> LikeReply
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>>> finsup
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>>>
>>> finsup
>>>
>>> 25 minutes ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I';m confused.  Where was the plane taking off from?  Did the plane
>>> leave with the pig on it, when was she asked to leave the plane?.  I
>>> thought they lived in Florida? How did the pig get to Bradley?  HELP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
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>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> 51 minutes ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> Ridiculous  how dumb can people and government  get!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> LikeReply
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>>>
>>> MASS INERT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> MASS INERT
>>>
>>> 1 hour ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Department of Transportation has certain guidelines concerning
>>> animals, including pigs, monkeys and miniature horses, that can be
>>> taken on flights if they are determined to be needed as emotional 
>>> support
> for a person.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Miniature Horses? Seriously?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These "service animals" need to have papers-license-validating
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right now there's no licensing needed, someone just has to state they
>>> have a service animal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If these animals can be brought on planes they can be brought
>>> anywhere else too as so called service animals.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Retail stores, restaurants.....miniature horse in a china shop....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Airlines should have special areas for passengers with service
>>> animals
>>> - somewhere in the luggage compartment.....Did she buy her pig a ticket?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> 1Holyoke55LikeReply
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> beaver6453
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> beaver6453
>>>
>>> 1 hour ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Need more drop down boxes on Orbitz.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Number of Adults
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Window or Aisle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Canine, Feline, Porcine
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> 2MASS INERTHolyoke55LikeReply
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> gridirons
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> gridirons
>>>
>>> 2 hours ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The dumbing down of America by some stinks. Can the pig fit in the
>>> rest room ? Maybe on future flights they'll serve ham and eggs.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> LikeReply
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> beaver6453
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> beaver6453
>>>
>>> 2 hours ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In case of emergency, I'd rather have the pig seated in the exit row
>>> than some of the folks on flights I'm on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> 2MASS INERTHolyoke55LikeReply
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> Holyoke55
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holyoke55
>>>
>>> 3 hours ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "...airlines must let passengers fly with pigs if they are for such
>>> emotional support"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LMAO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> LikeReply
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> oat123
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> oat123
>>>
>>> 9 hours ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That woman is a regular ham isn't she.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FlagShare
>>>
>>> 2Holyoke55nufbsLikeReply
>>>
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>>> Holyoke55
>>>
>>>
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>>> Holyoke55
>>>
>>> 3 hours ago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @oat123
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> HA HA HA.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> FlagShare
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>>> LikeReply
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