[nagdu] Teaching Relieving was RE: trouble with relieving

Thu Dec 11 14:03:42 UTC 2014

I, personally want my dog to be able to relieve wherever i ask her to go.  so, that would include, grass, concrete, off a curb, in a parking lot, on gravel, etc.  i believe it’s the signals that you give your dog that should tell them that it is all right to relieve.  this would include, stop, remove the harness, maybe get out a baggy and rustle it in the hand,  perhaps encouraging the dog with something verbal,  and, offering the dog a place to go that would be recognized as a relieving area.  
i have only been to pilot for my current dog but, i never heard any talk about relieving and, i saw accidents in the hallways and rooms.  there is no relief schedule, there is no hands on picking up after your dog.  as a first time guide dog handler this would be really helpful.  those folks have absolutely no idea so, when they get home, they do not pick up after their dogs.  i have seen a graduate of my class who lives in the same city as me let her dog relieve, on several occasions, in harness and, in people’s front yards, never once picking it up.
folks choose to go to a school for various reasons.  but, it’s well worth it to research in order that you will know what you are getting yourself into.  it should not be all about getting a dog, any dog, from any school, no matter what, just because you want one right now!  there are many things that pilot does not teach.  if you have already had guides and, you know how to work with this, then, by all means, go for it.  but, who will teach you, when you get home?  who will show you how to pick up after your dog?  who will show you how to train for overheads?  who will teach you about traffic checks?  etc etc.
you may recall that john, himself, told all here that his dog ran 3 up curbs on his very first walk.  this is really not acceptable.  did he trip?  did he fall?  that’s because, pilot does not train the dogs to stop at the up curb.  yes, i was shocked.  they train for a pause not a stop.
one of the most difficult things that i had to train my dog was the, stay, command.  this is an important command and one of the most difficult.  it’s harder to teach the dog stay than it is to train it to stop, full stop, at an up curb.
i know that i am probably preaching to the choir here
i also know there are other pilot grads here who will tell you the same thing.
my dog is a great guide now but, if she was my first and, i had no idea what to expect or how to work with her, i am certain things would be very different.
this will be my last post on the training methods of pilot as, i fear i may be getting myself in troubles.
some will say that i am bashing the school from which i got my own dog.  however, it’s not really bashing, it’s just stating the facts.  
would i go back there for another dog?  yes, no doubt about it.
but, i know what to expect and i can work with it, no problems.

Vivianna

On Dec 11, 2014, at 7:23 AM, Daryl Marie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Nicole,
> I completely agree with you.
> 
> Perhaps because I did in-home training, the idea of not teaching how to relieve just flabbergasts me.  It was the first thing I learned about when Jenn got here with the trainer.  Before we did obedience, before we did leash-walking, before ANYTHING, the trainer showed me Jenny's signals and pointers on picking up.
> During training, Jenny sometimes wouldn't relieve before taking off on a route, so we would have to stop so she could relieve.  Thankfully, we have worked it out so that she rarely has to do this.  If she does, she will pull over to a grassy area (or this time of year to a snowbank) and wait for me to take off her harness.  My husband often thinks she is distracted when she does this, but she will NEVER do this if she doesn't have to relieve... and she will always relieve if I take off her harness in these situations.
> 
> The only times she has had to relieve mid-walk in-harness, but those were because I didn't know her signals. She has peed on a sidewalk once, and about a month later pooped on the sidewalk... but she had given me a TON of signals beforehand that I just didn't notice.
> 
> It just seems odd that there is a lecture several weeks after training starts...
> 
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: 'Lori Dent' <loriandleo at ohiohills.com>, 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, 'Vivianna' <irishana at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wed, 10 Dec 2014 23:30:51 -0700 (MST)
> Subject: [nagdu] Teaching Relieving was RE:  trouble with relieving
> 
> I don't mean to bash  Pilot Dogs, but, JMHO, what they do is just out
> irresponsible. People need to learn to pick up after their dogs,
> particularly if someone has never had a dog. At GDB, they had a concrete
> relieving area. At first, the trainers would tell us when our dogs were
> going  and then pick up using shovels because the dogs had messed up
> relieving schedules from being in the kennels during training. However, they
> did tell us how to tell when our dogs were doing what, and we transitioned
> to knowing what our dogs were doing and picking it up ourselves pretty fast.
> 	If a dog will not go on concrete, it may be worth trying grass,
> bark, gravel, or anything other than concrete. During my class, some of the
> dogs had what I called "grass rights", meaning that they were allowed to go
> on the grass instead of on the concrete because they just would not go on
> the concrete.
> 
> Nicole
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lori Dent via
> nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:56 PM
> To: Vivianna; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] trouble with relieving
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> 
> I'm sorry your having relieving problems with Molly . I know while your at
> Pilot dogs and the dogs are relieving in the relieving area you don't have
> to pick up after your dog because the trainers  spray down the relieving
> area with a hose on a regular bases. And I know it's hard to tell if your
> dog is relieving or not when there are bars  all around the relieving area.
> But you should be able to  tell if Molly is moving around or just standing
> there right?And if Molly is just standing there you got to get her moving
> and walking around so she will go.
> 
> Pilot does have a lecture on relieving your dog and how to tell if your dog
> is going or not and how to pick up after your dog. But unfortunately , the
> trainers don't do the relieving lecture  in the beginning of training which
> they should but does do it later in your training.
> 
> But in the mean time, ask your trainer if you can relieve your dog somewhere
> else so you can run your hand down your dogs back to see if your dog is 
> sqwotting   and if so, then you can position yourself behind the dog so when
> 
> she's done you can bend over and pick up the poop with the bag over your
> hand and then  remove the bag from your hand tie it up and throw the bag
> away.
> 
> I think Pilot needs to redesign there releive area for the students and
> dogs. They need to remove the current relief  area they have and maybe put
> down gravel instead  for the dogs that way the dogs can relieve on the
> gravel and the student can learn how to  tell if their dog is going or not
> and how to pick up after your dogs while in class.
> 
> Now I do know, you have to carry pick up bags while out on walks right? Does
> Molly relieve  while in harness on a walk? If so, you are responsible to
> pick up after your dog then right. Good  luck with this. Take care.
> 
> Lori and the Gipper 
> 
> 
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