[nagdu] Guide dog schools

Thu Feb 6 15:45:52 UTC 2014

Thanks Toni for the head-to-head comparison.  Very helpful.

I guess some people equate what I call being professional with being cold, 
but that is not what I mean.  Semantics, I guess.
Anyway, now I know more than I did before.
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Toni Whaley" <blind_treasurer at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools

> Hello!
>
> When I first got a dog in 1980 I chose not to go to SE because, at that
> time, they were extremely formal and their intake personm was not the most
> friendly person to deal with. I went to GEB and received seven dogs from
> them. IN 2008 I went to SE. (The change of schools had nothing to do with
> GEB specificly but some things that were going on within me.) By 2008 the
> formal atmosphere of the SE was totally gone. All the staff were friendly
> and helpful. Staff from all departments, not just the trainers, frequently
> joined us at lunch. Freequently we saw the trainers in the lounges. 
> Everyone
> was willing to help out when needed. The biggest difference I saw between 
> SE
> and GEB at that time (2008) was the length of the routes we travelled. 
> This
> was no doubt due to the fact that SE is closer to Morrristown than GEB is 
> to
> White Plains. Although SE routes were longer, both schools employed the
> practice of increasing the complexity of the routes. Both schools took the
> students to work in New York City at least once. IN both cases, some went
> into the City more often because they needed more exposure to subways and
> other big city phenomena. At both schools, students who needed more 
> practice
> working at night received that experience. In one case, a student wanted 
> to
> make sure that his dog would be OK arounhd horses; so the trainer provided
> that experience for him.
>
> With respect to poor handlers, I've seen those from all the schools. This, 
> I
> believe, has more to do with the handlers themselves than the school.
>
> Tonithe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 4:29 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>
> Julie, thank you for better articulating what I was trying to say. The
> family atmosphere does not come from a level of helpfulness, but a level 
> of
> understanding, openness, and friendliness.
> I don't think there's a correlation between the informal professionalism 
> of
> the GEB staff and the careless GEB dog users that you have met. The staff
> are definitely sincere about keeping your dog in check, and ensuring that
> your dog is in an appropriate posture according to the situation. Now what
> people decide to do when they get home is a different story, and can't be
> micromanaged. I too have met and heard of GEB grads who are very lax with
> their dogs and don't maintain their self-control. But I also have friends
> who live with TSE grads who allow their dogs to get away with everything
> short of murder. I don't blame the school for that, I blame the handler 
> for
> not utilizing what the school taught them.
>
> On 2/6/14, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Tracey,
>>
>> I agree with Ravin.  I have heard the same things about the Seeing
>> Eye, though I would never say them myself since I have never attended
>> there.  I know TSE turns out good dogs, and I have heard good things
>> about the training staff.
>>
>> But yes, I felt like there was a family atmosphere at GEB.  On our
>> time off, the trainers would come out and chat with us, work with us,
>> or help to answer any questions we had.  It was clear that they were
>> there to work with us and instruct us on how to use our dogs, but they
>> never had an attitude of cold professionalism.  They were very
>> friendly, open, and professional in an informal way.  Perhaps this
>> treatment is not for everyone, but I loved it when I was there.
>>
>> That actually happened to me.  My dog jumped on my bed to lay next to
>> me in the middle of the night, without me realizing it, and the
>> trainer saw this in the morning.  I suppose my curtains weren't fully
>> drawn...  I thought we were going to be in sooooo much trouble, but
>> the trainer actually thought it was hysterical, and she realized I
>> probably didn't realize what my dog had done.  Well, and she knew the
>> dog in question...  How she got up there while on tie down, I still do
>> not understand.  The point is that the trainers and staff get to know
>> us as people as well as dog users, and they are very chill and
>> encouraging.
>>
>> On 2/5/14, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>> Hi Raven.
>>> I have experienced the same level of helpfulness at TSE and GDB.  I
>>> guess I
>>>
>>> just don't call it by the same name.
>>>
>>> When I've been caught by a trainer doing something against the rules,
>>> he or
>>>
>>> she has not exactly scolded me, but has pointed out why the rule is
>>> in place.
>>> I think that's better than ignoring the transgression.  It makes sure
>>> I know
>>>
>>> the reason, but leaves the choice up to me.
>>> Sorry, but I've met plenty of Guiding Eyes graduates who don't
>>> exercise any
>>>
>>> discipline over their dogs at all, or so it seems to me.  I've also
>>> met some
>>>
>>> who do, but, as usual, it's the slobs who stick out. Maybe I just run
>>> into more GEB users around New York, too.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 11:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>> As someone who attended GEB, I believe the family atmosphere that
>>>> most students' experience has more to do with the level of attention
>>>> and help they receive from everyone, not just their assigned 
>>>> instructor.
>>>> The instructors, nurses, and kitchen staff were all willing to
>>>> accommodate students' needs and requests. If anyone needed help,
>>>> there was always someone available who could assist you or answer
>>>> your questions. They treated us with the most care and compassion,
>>>> you know, like family members.
>>>> Also, the atmosphere during my class was very casual and laid-back.
>>>> None of the staff were uptight about anything. They would eat meals
>>>> with us, joke around with us, and they never talked to any of us as
>>>> if we were below them.
>>>> In addition, while GEB set boundaries for the dogs in dorm rooms,
>>>> the instructors never jumped down anyone's throat for not sticking
>>>> to those boundaries. For instance, a friend of mine allowed her dog
>>>> up on her bed. An instructor visited her to talk about something and
>>>> saw this, but the instructor did not scold her about it at all.
>>>> Another time, my instructor walked back to my room with me to look
>>>> at something. When we entered my room, my dog was freely roaming my
> room.
>>>> Now, we had only been together for 2 weeks. He had left my cheese
>>>> and crackers on the night table untouched, the food bin in the open
>>>> closet untouched, and the plastic waste bin on the ground untouched.
>>>> My instructor did not scold me about this at all. She only commented
>>>> that I had a very good dog.
>>>> So that familial atmosphere has nothing to do with the negative
>>>> things you listed. It is about the way staff interact with students.
>>>> Of course, we associate it with our own school because that's the
>>>> experience we have to speak of. Not because our school is hovering
>>>> over us like helicopter parents, or because other schools don't
>>>> measure up, or because other schools are below ours.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/5/14, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>>> I saw someone here with a Guiding Eyes dog trot out the old
>>>>> chestnut about how formal The Seeing Eye is.  I guess it was
>>>>> formal, 40 years ago, but it hasn't been so for quite a long time.
>>>>> It's amazing how long that idea is sticking around.
>>>>> To me, the atmosphere at TSE was like that at GDB, what I call
>>>>> friendly but
>>>>>
>>>>> professional.
>>>>> I often hear people talk about the "family atmosphere" of their 
>>>>> school.
>>>>> I'm
>>>>>
>>>>> never sure what that means.  Does it mean people who feel they can
>>>>> poke into
>>>>>
>>>>> my personal business?  Does it mean people who gossip about
>>>>> everyone else?
>>>>> Does it mean we're us, and they're the big smelly them?
>>>>> None of these things appeal to me.  I'm more comfortable with
>>>>> friendly professional--we like each other, but mainly we're here to
>>>>> do a great job together.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raven
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri
>> Association of Guide dog Users President, and Guiding Eyes for the
>> Blind graduate 2008 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only
>> Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have
>> eternal life."
>> John 3:16
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Raven
>
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