[nagdu] Guide dog schools

Thu Feb 13 15:10:06 UTC 2014

Hi Tracy and Lynn,

	I heard that a lot at GDA; we had rather close quarters in lecture,
so one really had to make sure his/her dog was out of the way so there would
be room for everyone.
	For some folks, I think they just don't care; for newer handlers, I
think it is a lack of awareness that hopefully, develops as peo0ple remind
the handler; I'd almost rather be shot than have my dog injured due to
something I can prevent.
Darla & handsome Huck

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 7:25 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools

You couldn't possibly "sleep through that lecture" on keeping the dog out of
the way at TSE.  It was a constant refrain.  And so it should be, IMO.

----- Original Message -----
From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools

> Yeah, you'd think the schools would stress putting the dog out of the way.

> The people from one of the other schools did say their school didn't 
> really stress this or teach it.  Or they were telling me a fib and they 
> really were sleeping throough that lecture!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like 
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <barbandzoe at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 8:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>
>
>> That was an interesting letter. When I was young, in the 60"s and 70's. 
>> most all the dogs I met were from TSE. they seemed well behaved and good 
>> in public. But when you said that many schools don't have the person tuck

>> the dog under a table or chair when out with other people seems odd to 
>> me. I would think they would have you do that just for safety of the dog,

>> so he doesn't get stepped on, and for the people around, so they don't 
>> trip. when I have my pets out with me they are under the chair or table 
>> for just that reason.
>> Barb
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:21:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>>
>> Hi folks,
>> Yeah, I'm actually alive! I just don't get much time to post these days.
>> We are undergoing massisve changes at our blind center (which I got 
>> started
>> a little over a year ago with some bigotry by board members) and we are 
>> in a
>> Mayoral race here in San Diego.
>>
>> Anyway, I have my dogs from The Seeing Eye and I love the place. Yes,
>> friendly but professional. To really understand the philosophy and
>> practises of TSE, read Love in the Lead by Peter Putnam. When you look at
>> it and how society was back in 1929 towards the blind, TSE was 
>> REVOLUTIONARY
>> in its approach to dealing with blind people. It does remind me of an 
>> early
>> version of NFB way before there actually was the NFB. There were
>> progressively thinking folks both sighted and blind involved with the 
>> school
>> from Day 1.
>>
>> We see some of the customs of TSE a bit archaic but it is understandable
>> when you read the history behind the customs. Now things are very much 
>> less
>> formal than years gone by. We still dress a bit nicer for lunch but not 
>> the
>> dresses for women and ties and jackets for men anymore. For both sexes, a
>> nice top and even nice jeans are fine nowadays. At lunch, that's when the
>> school's whole staff, employees, administration folks, kennel folks,
>> vetrinarian staff, and visitors gather in the dining room for lunch. We
>> students use this as a training opportunity as the dining room is set up
>> like a restaurant than all but the students and our trainers are already
>> seated and eating when we arrive in the dining room. We have to work our
>> dogs past their tables to get to our tables - just like you do in a
>> restaurant.
>>
>> TSE also sees blind adults as we are - adults just like any other adults.
>> We are treated as such with respect. We can respect ourselves as well. No
>> paternalism at TSE as far as I could see.
>>
>> I do see that our training and handling of our dogs a bit more strict 
>> while
>> we are at TSE. Emphasis is on getting our dogs under control and out of 
>> the
>> way when hanging out or in the public areas of the school. After we 
>> recieve
>> harnesses, we are expected to work the dogs in harness in all areas 
>> except
>> for the student dorm wing. TSE prides itself on well trained and well
>> behaved guide dogs and our training to keep this up. It makes us as blind
>> handlers look good and the demeanor of the dogs looks good and a positive
>> face is shown to the general public when we all go home with our dogs. A
>> fantastic compliment is when someone says, "I didn't know there was a dog

>> in
>> here! How quiet and wwell behaved it is!"
>>
>> I think most schools also teach these skills in having a well trained and
>> well behaved guide. They want their school to look good to the public as
>> well. But, I think there are some areas where other schools don't seem to
>> place as much priority on making sure your dog is out of the way when we 
>> are
>> seated at a restaurant or a meeting. At my blind center, dogs are 
>> sprawled
>> ouot behind people's chairs instead of under the tables or next to the
>> chairs with the dog's butt under the table. I've asked people about their
>> training and they said that they didn't get taught to pay attention to 
>> where
>> their dog was. And some schools have very long leashes.
>>
>> This is not any smack against other schools. Just observations with 
>> people
>> I'm around who have dogs from other schools.
>>
>> Take care all and before you know it you'll be swealtering in horrible
>> summer heat and all the snow and ice will be a distant memory!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Aleeha Dudley" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 4:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>>
>>
>>>I found the environment at the Seeing Eye very family ish. I had my share
>>>of personal issues while I was there and the staff and trainers were
>>>nothing but helpful. The trainer on duty at night would often hang around
>>>the students. We really got to know our specific trainers and I have
>>>nothing but good things to say about the program and its staff. I did not
>>>find it too formal and several times I benefited from knowing the reasons
>>>for some of the rules.
>>> Aleeha and Dallas
>>> On 2/6/2014 2:42 AM, Julie McGinnity wrote:
>>>> Hi Tracey,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Ravin. I have heard the same things about the Seeing
>>>> Eye, though I would never say them myself since I have never attended
>>>> there. I know TSE turns out good dogs, and I have heard good things
>>>> about the training staff.
>>>>
>>>> But yes, I felt like there was a family atmosphere at GEB. On our
>>>> time off, the trainers would come out and chat with us, work with us,
>>>> or help to answer any questions we had. It was clear that they were
>>>> there to work with us and instruct us on how to use our dogs, but they
>>>> never had an attitude of cold professionalism. They were very
>>>> friendly, open, and professional in an informal way. Perhaps this
>>>> treatment is not for everyone, but I loved it when I was there.
>>>>
>>>> That actually happened to me. My dog jumped on my bed to lay next to
>>>> me in the middle of the night, without me realizing it, and the
>>>> trainer saw this in the morning. I suppose my curtains weren't fully
>>>> drawn... I thought we were going to be in sooooo much trouble, but
>>>> the trainer actually thought it was hysterical, and she realized I
>>>> probably didn't realize what my dog had done. Well, and she knew the
>>>> dog in question... How she got up there while on tie down, I still do
>>>> not understand. The point is that the trainers and staff get to know
>>>> us as people as well as dog users, and they are very chill and
>>>> encouraging.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/5/14, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Raven.
>>>>> I have experienced the same level of helpfulness at TSE and GDB. I
>>>>> guess I
>>>>>
>>>>> just don't call it by the same name.
>>>>>
>>>>> When I've been caught by a trainer doing something against the rules, 
>>>>> he
>>>>> or
>>>>>
>>>>> she has not exactly scolded me, but has pointed out why the rule is in
>>>>> place.
>>>>> I think that's better than ignoring the transgression. It makes sure I
>>>>> know
>>>>>
>>>>> the reason, but leaves the choice up to me.
>>>>> Sorry, but I've met plenty of Guiding Eyes graduates who don't 
>>>>> exercise
>>>>> any
>>>>>
>>>>> discipline over their dogs at all, or so it seems to me. I've also met
>>>>> some
>>>>>
>>>>> who do, but, as usual, it's the slobs who stick out. Maybe I just run
>>>>> into
>>>>> more GEB users around New York, too.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 11:23 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide dog schools
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>> As someone who attended GEB, I believe the family atmosphere that 
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> students' experience has more to do with the level of attention and
>>>>>> help they receive from everyone, not just their assigned instructor.
>>>>>> The instructors, nurses, and kitchen staff were all willing to
>>>>>> accommodate students' needs and requests. If anyone needed help, 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> was always someone available who could assist you or answer your
>>>>>> questions. They treated us with the most care and compassion, you
>>>>>> know, like family members.
>>>>>> Also, the atmosphere during my class was very casual and laid-back.
>>>>>> None of the staff were uptight about anything. They would eat meals
>>>>>> with us, joke around with us, and they never talked to any of us as 
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> we were below them.
>>>>>> In addition, while GEB set boundaries for the dogs in dorm rooms, the
>>>>>> instructors never jumped down anyone's throat for not sticking to
>>>>>> those boundaries. For instance, a friend of mine allowed her dog up 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> her bed. An instructor visited her to talk about something and saw
>>>>>> this, but the instructor did not scold her about it at all. Another
>>>>>> time, my instructor walked back to my room with me to look at
>>>>>> something. When we entered my room, my dog was freely roaming my 
>>>>>> room.
>>>>>> Now, we had only been together for 2 weeks. He had left my cheese and
>>>>>> crackers on the night table untouched, the food bin in the open 
>>>>>> closet
>>>>>> untouched, and the plastic waste bin on the ground untouched. My
>>>>>> instructor did not scold me about this at all. She only commented 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had a very good dog.
>>>>>> So that familial atmosphere has nothing to do with the negative 
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> you listed. It is about the way staff interact with students. Of
>>>>>> course, we associate it with our own school because that's the
>>>>>> experience we have to speak of. Not because our school is hovering
>>>>>> over us like helicopter parents, or because other schools don't
>>>>>> measure up, or because other schools are below ours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/5/14, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> I saw someone here with a Guiding Eyes dog trot out the old chestnut
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> how formal The Seeing Eye is. I guess it was formal, 40 years ago,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> hasn't been so for quite a long time. It's amazing how long that 
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> sticking around.
>>>>>>> To me, the atmosphere at TSE was like that at GDB, what I call
>>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> professional.
>>>>>>> I often hear people talk about the "family atmosphere" of their
>>>>>>> school.
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> never sure what that means. Does it mean people who feel they can
>>>>>>> poke
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my personal business? Does it mean people who gossip about everyone
>>>>>>> else?
>>>>>>> Does it mean we're us, and they're the big smelly them?
>>>>>>> None of these things appeal to me. I'm more comfortable with 
>>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>>> professional--we like each other, but mainly we're here to do a 
>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>> job
>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Raven
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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