[nagdu] Private Trainers was RE: Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs

sheila sleigland at bresnan.net
Fri Feb 21 04:43:19 UTC 2014


interesting post. I don't know if any of the schools use blind folks to 
train with the dogs. My thought is that I have found that sometimes 
trainers forget what totally blind folks might miss compared with folks 
with some usable vision.
On 2/20/2014 9:27 PM, Nicole Torcolini wrote:
> Okay, I promise that this is the last one tonight. I know, I need to not
> forgetting to include stuff. The other thing that I was going to say is that
> I think that it is better that someone who is blind is training the dog
> instead of someone who is sighted. This is for several reasons. I truly
> believe that, no matter how much sighted people try to learn what it is like
> to blind, unless they spend a very long time under blind fold, there will
> always be certain things that they don't understand, and some of these
> things might affect how they think a dog should be trained to guide. Also, I
> have heard a theory that dogs can tell when a person is blind. They think
> that the training process is a game; however, once they get paired with
> their blind handler, they realize that it is not a game, that they actually
> are responsible for the people, and it is just too much for them. .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:18 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] Private Trainers was RE: Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>
> Too bad that there are not more private trainers, or that at least more
> schools do things the way that private trainers do. JMHO, some of the
> schools possibly could use a little better food. The whole
> stay-in-the-kennel during training thing also is not that great. The labs
> seem to handle it fine, but they take a little bit to get back on track with
> the whole going on command, and they can develop some undesirable behaviors
> when staying in the kennel.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 8:51 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>
> Yes, you have it exactly right!  Monty is my current guide, who I owner
> trained.  I also owner trained my previous guides.  I have never attended a
> program.  My next guide, Jetta, I plan on picking up from the trainer this
> fall.  when exactly depends on when she is ready, when I can find a driver
> and the weather.  I'm in Nebraska and the trainer is in Wisconsin.
>
> Jetta is a Doberman.  I purchased her from a breeder here in Nebraska.  I
> brought her home when she was 8 weeks old.  she stayed with me for about 10
> days.  she was an adorable puppy!  She has been with the trainer ever since.
>
> Meghan Whalen is the trainer.  she is also a member of this list.  She is
> blind and has owner trained one guide dog, raised several puppies, and has
> trained several guide/service dogs.
>
> Owner training isn't particularly difficult, but it is incredibly time
> consuming.  It requires a lot of planning and a daily commitment to doing
> the work.  I'm at a place in my life where I have other things I'd rather be
> doing, so I went with a trainer this time.  I'm very picky about what I want
> in a guide and none of the current programs offer exactly what I want.  My
> list of must have's includes full ownership with no strings attached, my
> breed of choice, clicker training, use of food rewards and  premium foods.
> I'm also very excited about picking out my own puppy, getting updates
> throughout the process, deciding what and how I want my dog trained, off
> leash manners, knowing the puppy raiser/trainer, minimal moves between
> homes, no kennel environment and the ability to see my puppy if I choose.
>
> I'm about 6 months into the process.  So far I'm very, extremely pleased.
> I do miss Jetta and wish I lived closer so I could visit more often, but I
> have no desire to actually do the training myself.  It's been five years
> since I trained Monty, but I still vividly remember how much work it is.
> This has been the perfect solution for me.
>
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daryl Marie
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:28 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>
> Julie, I've come late to the party... can you explain a little about what
> you are doing?  Looks like, from what I have read, Monty was an
> owner-trained guide dog and Jetta is being trained by a trainer somewhere? I
> am curious.
>
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:17:07 -0700 (MST)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>
> This topic has been very interesting to me.  My current plan is that Jetta
> will come back to me at about 16 months old.  she will be fully trained at
> that point.   I have always planned to work both Jetta and Monty part time,
> switching back and forth, so Jetta can ease into guiding and Monty can ease
> into retirement.  We'll see how that works out.
>
> Jetta is 8 months old right now and she doesn't have any of the bad manners
> described of young dogs.  She doesn't resource guard, mouth people, pull on
> leash or chew up stuff.  Perhaps she hasn't come into true adolescence yet
> and she'll go crazy doing all sorts of bad stuff, but I kind of doubt it.
> I'm sure she will do some of the testing and asserting her ideas in the next
> few months.  Honestly though, I am pretty confident that she'll be ready at
> a young age.  She has never been a crazy, out of control puppy and I don't
> see why that won't continue.
>
> I do realize that no matter how nice her behavior and manners are, there is
> physical and mental development that doesn't occur until later.  I'll need
> to be mindful of that and not ask her to do more than she can.
>
> Perhaps being an owner trainer and now having Jetta privately trained is a
> different situation from the discussion here.  I don't know.  All of my dogs
> have eased into the role of guiding.  There has not been an abrupt change
> from being trained to being totally responsible for guiding.  I have done
> that transition gradually.  I let the dog guide when he can and train in
> situations he isn't ready to navigate.  It sounds complicated, but really it
> doesn't require much thought.  You know what your dog can do and what he
> can't.
>
> Jetta will be different, of course.  Still I'm used to working young dogs in
> limited situations and letting them get their sea legs, so to speak.
> Perhaps if I lived in a big city or traveled a ton or had other more high
> intensity lifestyle, then an older dog would be the way to go.  I don't
> know.
>
> Julie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>
> 15 months? Whoa! That is playing with fire.
> When I made the assembly line reference, I was referring to the way guide
> dogs themselves are evaluated and trained at certain schools. It is more an
> assembly line for the dogs than the people. The matching process at any
> place better be as meticulous as possible. I would expect that from the
> worst schools.
> I guess I am very sensitive to the age issue because I deal with adolescent
> and adult dogs of multiple breeds on a regular basis. I've seen firsthand
> the difference 6 months can make.
> I am also passionate about this issue, because I am hearing what I call
> horror stories about these young dogs being sent home with people. Resource
> guarding, mouthiness, unnecessary retrieving, horrible leash manners, and
> flat out refusal to work some days and then eagerness to work others.
> Schools telling people their dogs will "grow out of it." Well, I sure hope
> so! It's just too bad they couldn't wait till the dog was well-refined
> before they handed it over.
> I'm not sure how new or traditional this is, schools putting out dogs so
> young, but I know that in other countries, schools don't dream of issuing
> adolescent dogs, and other assistance dog programs don't either, and for a
> multitude of good reasons. I think the economy might have something to do
> with this. Just maybe? The earlier you put dogs out, the less money you have
> to spend providing for them, especially when you have a large breeding
> stock, number of litters or gdits on the docket.
> This is not to bash any school or to undermine the relationship or stability
> of any of the little ones working out there. However, the differences in age
> are quiet noticeable, and the consensus is out.
> Some programs and trainers choose to ignore that, and they are doing a
> number of dogs and handlers a great disservice. Not everyone, but a great
> number, for sure.
>
> On 2/20/14, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> oh, Jenny is a wiggler!  My husband has nicknamed her "wiggles".  I
>> don't mind so much if she's out of harness and old friends come and
>> say hi.  But when she meets new people, I always remind her "manners"
>> and it seems to calm her down. it's cute!
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 07:37:09 -0700 (MST)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>
>> Pascal was 19 months old when I received him in 2009, and he was one
>> of the youngest dogs in our class. Most of the other dogs were about
>> 22 months old.
>> He has always been very mature, and very well behaved. He didn't want
>> to lie down on floors or get underneath tables, for the first few
>> months. And, he seemed to mature at lot once he hit 3 years old. He
>> has never been one of those wiggly labs, you know the ones who get so
>> excited their whole body wiggles! LOL One of my co-workers just got a
>> dog that is only 15 months old. She is very puppy like!
>> Deanna and Pascal
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry
>> Gomes
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:37 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>
>> I think the same could apply to labs. My current guide is a reissue,
>> so she was three when we trained together. what a difference! I don't
>> want my next guide to be 18 months old as so many are when graduating.
>> Two years old is the youngest I'd want and I'd jump to have a reissue
>> again. Though having said that, Bianca, who was about 2 when we
>> trained and is 13 now is still young at heart and full of spirit and a
>> sort of happy puppy mentality.
>> Olga,
>> my working guide is 8 and has a very old soul. I'm sure she was always
>> that way even when she was a baby.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami Jarvis
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:01 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>
>> Ooh! Research! Poodles are said to mature later, both physically and
>> mentally, and I did find that with mine. She really came into her own
>> between 3 and 4. Then again, I've heard of a few people getting really
>> young poodles that seem to work out well. Okay. Off to read. /smile/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 02/19/2014 10:22 AM, "Leye-Shprintse Öberg" wrote:
>>> BS"D
>>>
>>> Raven,
>>>
>>> * "... I did some research and found a study on Seeing Eye dogs that
>> concluded that goldens and GSds are more successful as guide dogs if
>> they're formal guide training is longer than the standard 4 months.
>> This is because these dogs mature around age 2, not 1.5 or 1.75 years,
>> which is when many schools seem to be pushing dogs through. Here's the
>> link to the abstract.
>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1558787806000256  ..."
>>> I think this is very interesting. I know that SRF:s
>>> Ledarhundsverksamhet
>> (Guide Dogs Sweden) took the decision that the dogs needed to be
>> between the age of 2 and 3 years when they did the qualifying test
>> some years ago. The dogs here generally get around seven months of
>> training by a guide dog trainer. Anyhow, they think this has led to
>> more stable partnerships; I've any statestics tough.
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Leye-Shprintse and Hera <3
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.
>>> c
>>> om
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sherriola%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dlewis%40clovernook
>> .org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/crazymusician%40sha
>> w.ca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ravend729%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>
> --
> Raven
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3705/6609 - Release Date: 02/20/14
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/crazymusician%40shaw.ca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3705/6609 - Release Date: 02/20/14
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sleigland%40bresnan.net
>





More information about the NAGDU mailing list