[nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs

Fri Feb 21 04:48:44 UTC 2014

Dear Min,

	I can't answer for your school, but it seems schools change their
minds about that; at one time, 18 months was very, very common.  Then, it
seemed or awhile, that many of the schools were waiting till a bit closer to
two years old.
	What I want is my dog not to be rushed through training, as, in the
end, I have to live with it, and, in my opinion, nobody wins.
Darla & Huck

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of minh ha
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:35 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs

Nicole,

I don't think this is true, if it is then it must be a very rare occurrence.
When I received Viva, she was 20 months old and the other dogs in my class
were around that age. I know people who have attended class recently and
their dogs were also around the 20 month mark. I really do think it depends
on the dog and how fast they mature.

Minh

On 2/20/14, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> From what I heard, GDB is now placing dogs at 17 months. I really hope 
> that they change this. If they don't, then I will probably ask if they 
> have any older dogs when I go for my next dog.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven 
> Tolliver
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 7:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>
> 15 months? Whoa! That is playing with fire.
> When I made the assembly line reference, I was referring to the way 
> guide dogs themselves are evaluated and trained at certain schools. It 
> is more an assembly line for the dogs than the people. The matching 
> process at any place better be as meticulous as possible. I would 
> expect that from the worst schools.
> I guess I am very sensitive to the age issue because I deal with 
> adolescent and adult dogs of multiple breeds on a regular basis. I've 
> seen firsthand the difference 6 months can make.
> I am also passionate about this issue, because I am hearing what I 
> call horror stories about these young dogs being sent home with 
> people. Resource guarding, mouthiness, unnecessary retrieving, 
> horrible leash manners, and flat out refusal to work some days and then
eagerness to work others.
> Schools telling people their dogs will "grow out of it." Well, I sure 
> hope so! It's just too bad they couldn't wait till the dog was 
> well-refined before they handed it over.
> I'm not sure how new or traditional this is, schools putting out dogs 
> so young, but I know that in other countries, schools don't dream of 
> issuing adolescent dogs, and other assistance dog programs don't 
> either, and for a multitude of good reasons. I think the economy might 
> have something to do with this. Just maybe? The earlier you put dogs 
> out, the less money you have to spend providing for them, especially 
> when you have a large breeding stock, number of litters or gdits on 
> the docket.
> This is not to bash any school or to undermine the relationship or 
> stability of any of the little ones working out there. However, the 
> differences in age are quiet noticeable, and the consensus is out.
> Some programs and trainers choose to ignore that, and they are doing a 
> number of dogs and handlers a great disservice. Not everyone, but a 
> great number, for sure.
>
> On 2/20/14, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> oh, Jenny is a wiggler!  My husband has nicknamed her "wiggles".  I 
>> don't mind so much if she's out of harness and old friends come and 
>> say hi.  But when she meets new people, I always remind her "manners"
>> and it seems to calm her down. it's cute!
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 07:37:09 -0700 (MST)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>
>> Pascal was 19 months old when I received him in 2009, and he was one 
>> of the youngest dogs in our class. Most of the other dogs were about 
>> 22
> months old.
>> He has always been very mature, and very well behaved. He didn't want 
>> to lie down on floors or get underneath tables, for the first few 
>> months. And, he seemed to mature at lot once he hit 3 years old. He 
>> has never been one of those wiggly labs, you know the ones who get so 
>> excited their whole body wiggles! LOL One of my co-workers just got a 
>> dog that is only 15 months old. She is very puppy like!
>> Deanna and Pascal
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry 
>> Gomes
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:37 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>
>> I think the same could apply to labs. My current guide is a reissue, 
>> so she was three when we trained together. what a difference! I don't 
>> want my next guide to be 18 months old as so many are when graduating.
>> Two years old is the youngest I'd want and I'd jump to have a reissue 
>> again. Though having said that, Bianca, who was about 2 when we 
>> trained and is 13 now is still young at heart and full of spirit and 
>> a sort of happy puppy mentality. Olga, my working guide is 8 and has 
>> a very old soul. I'm sure she was always that way even when she was a
baby.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami 
>> Jarvis
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:01 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>
>> Ooh! Research! Poodles are said to mature later, both physically and 
>> mentally, and I did find that with mine. She really came into her own 
>> between 3 and 4. Then again, I've heard of a few people getting 
>> really young poodles that seem to work out well. Okay. Off to read. 
>> /smile/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 02/19/2014 10:22 AM, "Leye-Shprintse Öberg" wrote:
>>> BS"D
>>>
>>> Raven,
>>>
>>> * "... I did some research and found a study on Seeing Eye dogs that
>> concluded that goldens and GSds are more successful as guide dogs if 
>> they're formal guide training is longer than the standard 4 months.
>> This is because these dogs mature around age 2, not 1.5 or 1.75 
>> years, which is when many schools seem to be pushing dogs through. 
>> Here's the
> link to the abstract.
>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1558787806000256  ..."
>>>
>>> I think this is very interesting. I know that SRF:s 
>>> Ledarhundsverksamhet
>> (Guide Dogs Sweden) took the decision that the dogs needed to be 
>> between the age of 2 and 3 years when they did the qualifying test 
>> some years ago. The dogs here generally get around seven months of 
>> training by a guide dog trainer. Anyhow, they think this has led to 
>> more stable partnerships; I've any statestics tough.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Leye-Shprintse and Hera <3
>>>
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>
> --
> Raven
>
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--
"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their
dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence

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