[nagdu] New Dog and Changing the Nam was RE: Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs

Sat Feb 22 06:43:35 UTC 2014

When I first got the Golden Guy, I immediately started calling him Kip
rather than Kipling. Throughout my first couple days with him, my
instructor kept reminding me to call my dog by his name.
It wasn't that I didn't like his name; I have always thought it was
adorable. I just habitually used my nickname for him.
I just started switching between Kipling and Kip, and he got used to
Kip after the first month of being home with me.

On 2/22/14, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> I imagine it would be confusing if you get a dog whose name is the
> same as your spouse or your sibling or something.  And I'm sure this
> has happened.
>
> On 2/21/14, sheila <sleigland at bresnan.net> wrote:
>> Tres is officially tres but he  is also tresdog, tresers, tresie.
>> On 2/21/2014 9:21 PM, Darla Rogers wrote:
>>> Hi Nicole,
>>>
>>> 	I almost did once:  I had an N yellow Labrador names Nectar; then,
>>> the next dog I get from the same school, was a yellow lab named Nuance.
>>> While they do not  sound alike at all, my preference might have been for
>>> a
>>> different breed or  different name.
>>> 	I wasn't so sure about Huck either, but now I  can't imagine him
>>> being anything but Huck or Huck the Puck or Huckleberry-Bee."
>>> Darla
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole
>>> Torcolini
>>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: [nagdu] New Dog and Changing the Nam was RE: Age of Qualifying
>>> Guide Dogs
>>>
>>> Okay, so, JMHO, there are two things going on here. No, I am not really
>>> one
>>> to talk as I am only on my first guide dog, but I think that you kind of
>>> have to be over the loss of your last dog at least a little before you
>>> get
>>> your next one. Every dog is different. You might ask for the same breed
>>> and
>>> the same gender and the same personality and the same whatever else, but
>>> it
>>> is a different dog, so you can't expect the dog to do the exact same
>>> thing
>>> that the last dog did, especially right away.
>>> Second, I don't like the idea of changing the name of your guide dog.
>>> Things
>>> are confusing enough for the dogs when they are learning to work with
>>> their
>>> new handlers, so the last thing that they need is a different name. One
>>> of
>>> the few situations  in which I believe that changing the name of the dog
>>> is
>>> warranted is if it isn't really a name or it's a name that, for
>>> whatever,
>>> just does not work (e.g., you cannot pronounce it). In that case, you
>>> would
>>> probably change the name a little later.
>>> Someone I know received a dog named Power. No offense, but that is not a
>>> name. The person renamed the dog Howard, which is different but not so
>>> different that the dog would have a hard time adapting to it. Also, I do
>>> not
>>> know when the person renamed the dog, but I imagine that it was not
>>> right
>>> away.
>>>
>>> Nicole and Lexia
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>> Carcione
>>> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 5:26 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>
>>> Hi Raven.
>>> Oh, just you wait!  I bet there's not a retrain alive who hasn't called
>>> the
>>> new dog by the old dog's name at least once.
>>> When one of my classmates at TSE was having trouble with his new dog's
>>> name,
>>> our trainer told him he couldn't go home until he remembered his dog's
>>> name!
>>>
>>> I was much amused.
>>> Sometimes I entertain myself by thinking of possible dog names.  I've
>>> decided the best of them is Um, since, after 6 dogs, Um is the first
>>> thing
>>> that comes to mind as I mentally run through the list to get to the
>>> right
>>> name.
>>>
>>> Also, though I try to not rush my new dogs, I do have to go to work and
>>> commute. I've already taken at least 3 weeks off; taking another is out
>>> of
>>> the question.  I probably wouldn't go out to dinner and a show after
>>> work,
>>> at least for a couple weeks, but I do have things that need to get done.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 3:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>
>>>
>>> Um, no. It was not all work-related. It was just a guy who likes to go
>>> out
>>> and stay out a lot. Restaurants, stops at numerous stores, subway
>>> stations
>>> and so on. I think it was just too much all at once. He also might have
>>> been
>>> very hard on him expecting his dog to find things and show him things
>>> the
>>> way his previous dog did. Too, this guy retired his former guide on
>>> Friday
>>> and received the replacement the next Wednesday, so there were a few
>>> things
>>> at play there. He would call his new boy by his old guide's name. And he
>>> would constantly reminisce about his former guide. That's
>>> understandable,
>>> but I think it played a role in that dog stressing out.
>>>
>>> On 2/20/14, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Julie and Raven,
>>>>
>>>> Most schools, if memory serves, do tell you that; sometimes, you have
>>>> to return to work, but it sounds like the person you refer to here
>>>> could have added activities gradually.
>>>> If they were all work-related, I don't know what to say.
>>>> Darla & Huck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>>> Tolliver
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 11:50 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>
>>>> Julie,
>>>> I like your idea of easing a dog into fulltime work. I think it's an
>>>> unconventional, but rather practical and sensible concept. Many guide
>>>> dogs, no matter the age, are not afforded that opportunity. They just
>>>> go from working for an hour or 2 each day to working fulltime and I'm
>>>> sure that contributes to some of the stress on both dog and handler.
>>>> I know of a New Yorker who got a dog. They seemed well-match. This guy
>>>> was constantly on the go, and he received an adorable ball of energy.
>>>> After he got home, I guess he asked way too much of his dog. It seemed
>>>> that he wanted to resume the fast-paced, here there and everywhere
>>>> lifestyle he'd had before without taking time and consideration to
>>>> acclimate his dog to his home, familiar routes, lifestyle, and
>>>> routine. The dog stressed out and started ignoring cues while working.
>>>> The dog was returned, and fortunately placed with someone else a
>>>> couple months later. But it was a great lesson to this guy to ease his
>>>> dog into such a rigorous work routine.
>>>> Being an energetic dog on the go is fine, but being an energetic dog
>>>> on the go, and working is a different thing, and it wears on a dog.
>>>> And it's a lot to expect so immediately for some dogs.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/20/14, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, Julie,
>>>>>
>>>>> That's great!  I think it is an itneresting concept!  *smiles*  Good
>>>>> on
>>>> ya!
>>>>> Daryl
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:51:12 -0700 (MST)
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, you have it exactly right!  Monty is my current guide, who I
>>>>> owner trained.  I also owner trained my previous guides.  I have
>>>>> never attended a program.  My next guide, Jetta, I plan on picking up
>>>>> from the trainer this fall.  when exactly depends on when she is
>>>>> ready, when I can find a driver and the weather.  I'm in Nebraska and
>>>>> the trainer
>>>> is in Wisconsin.
>>>>> Jetta is a Doberman.  I purchased her from a breeder here in Nebraska.
>>>>> I brought her home when she was 8 weeks old.  she stayed with me for
>>>>> about 10 days.  she was an adorable puppy!  She has been with the
>>>>> trainer
>>>> ever since.
>>>>> Meghan Whalen is the trainer.  she is also a member of this list.
>>>>> She is blind and has owner trained one guide dog, raised several
>>>>> puppies, and has trained several guide/service dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Owner training isn't particularly difficult, but it is incredibly
>>>>> time consuming.  It requires a lot of planning and a daily commitment
>>>>> to doing the work.  I'm at a place in my life where I have other
>>>>> things I'd rather be doing, so I went with a trainer this time.  I'm
>>>>> very picky about what I want in a guide and none of the current
>>>>> programs offer exactly what I want.  My list of must have's includes
>>>>> full ownership with no strings attached, my breed of choice, clicker
>>>>> training,
>>>> use of food rewards and  premium foods.
>>>>> I'm also very excited about picking out my own puppy, getting updates
>>>>> throughout the process, deciding what and how I want my dog trained,
>>>>> off leash manners, knowing the puppy raiser/trainer, minimal moves
>>>>> between homes, no kennel environment and the ability to see my puppy
>>>>> if I
>>>> choose.
>>>>> I'm about 6 months into the process.  So far I'm very, extremely
>>>>> pleased.
>>>>> I do miss Jetta and wish I lived closer so I could visit more often,
>>>>> but I have no desire to actually do the training myself.  It's been
>>>>> five years since I trained Monty, but I still vividly remember how
>>>>> much
>>>> work it is.
>>>>> This has been the perfect solution for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Daryl Marie
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:28 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie, I've come late to the party... can you explain a little about
>>>>> what you are doing?  Looks like, from what I have read, Monty was an
>>>>> owner-trained guide dog and Jetta is being trained by a trainer
>>>>> somewhere? I am curious.
>>>>>
>>>>> Daryl
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:17:07 -0700 (MST)
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>
>>>>> This topic has been very interesting to me.  My current plan is that
>>>>> Jetta will come back to me at about 16 months old.  she will be fully
>>>> trained at
>>>>> that point.   I have always planned to work both Jetta and Monty part
>>>> time,
>>>>> switching back and forth, so Jetta can ease into guiding and Monty
>>>>> can ease into retirement.  We'll see how that works out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jetta is 8 months old right now and she doesn't have any of the bad
>>>>> manners described of young dogs.  She doesn't resource guard, mouth
>>>>> people, pull on leash or chew up stuff.  Perhaps she hasn't come into
>>>>> true adolescence yet and she'll go crazy doing all sorts of bad
>>>>> stuff, but
>>>> I kind of doubt it.
>>>>> I'm sure she will do some of the testing and asserting her ideas in
>>>>> the next few months.  Honestly though, I am pretty confident that
>>>>> she'll be ready at a young age.  She has never been a crazy, out of
>>>>> control puppy and I don't see why that won't continue.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do realize that no matter how nice her behavior and manners are,
>>>>> there is physical and mental development that doesn't occur until
>>>>> later.  I'll need to be mindful of that and not ask her to do more
>>>>> than
>>>> she can.
>>>>> Perhaps being an owner trainer and now having Jetta privately trained
>>>>> is a different situation from the discussion here.  I don't know.
>>>>> All of my dogs have eased into the role of guiding.  There has not
>>>>> been an abrupt change from being trained to being totally responsible
>>>>> for guiding.  I have done that transition gradually.  I let the dog
>>>>> guide when he can and train in situations he isn't ready to navigate.
>>>>> It sounds complicated, but really it doesn't require much thought.
>>>>> You know what your dog can do and what he can't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jetta will be different, of course.  Still I'm used to working young
>>>>> dogs in limited situations and letting them get their sea legs, so to
>>>> speak.
>>>>> Perhaps if I lived in a big city or traveled a ton or had other more
>>>>> high intensity lifestyle, then an older dog would be the way to go.
>>>>> I don't know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Raven Tolliver
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 9:58 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>
>>>>> 15 months? Whoa! That is playing with fire.
>>>>> When I made the assembly line reference, I was referring to the way
>>>>> guide dogs themselves are evaluated and trained at certain schools.
>>>>> It is more an assembly line for the dogs than the people. The
>>>>> matching process at any place better be as meticulous as possible. I
>>>>> would expect that from the worst schools.
>>>>> I guess I am very sensitive to the age issue because I deal with
>>>>> adolescent and adult dogs of multiple breeds on a regular basis. I've
>>>>> seen firsthand the difference 6 months can make.
>>>>> I am also passionate about this issue, because I am hearing what I
>>>>> call horror stories about these young dogs being sent home with
>>>>> people. Resource guarding, mouthiness, unnecessary retrieving,
>>>>> horrible leash manners, and flat out refusal to work some days and
>>>>> then eagerness to work others. Schools telling people their dogs will
>>>>> "grow out of it." Well, I sure hope so! It's just too bad they
>>>>> couldn't wait till the dog was well-refined before they handed it
>>>>> over.
>>>>> I'm not sure how new or traditional this is, schools putting out dogs
>>>>> so young, but I know that in other countries, schools don't dream of
>>>>> issuing adolescent dogs, and other assistance dog programs don't
>>>>> either, and for a multitude of good reasons. I think the economy
>>>>> might have something to do with this. Just maybe? The earlier you put
>>>>> dogs out, the less money you have to spend providing for them,
>>>>> especially when you have a large breeding stock, number of litters or
>>>>> gdits on the docket.
>>>>> This is not to bash any school or to undermine the relationship or
>>>>> stability of any of the little ones working out there. However, the
>>>>> differences in age are quiet noticeable, and the consensus is out.
>>>>> Some programs and trainers choose to ignore that, and they are doing
>>>>> a number of dogs and handlers a great disservice. Not everyone, but a
>>>>> great number, for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/20/14, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> oh, Jenny is a wiggler!  My husband has nicknamed her "wiggles".  I
>>>>>> don't mind so much if she's out of harness and old friends come and
>>>>>> say hi.  But when she meets new people, I always remind her "manners"
>>>>>> and it seems to calm her down. it's cute!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daryl
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org>
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 07:37:09 -0700 (MST)
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pascal was 19 months old when I received him in 2009, and he was one
>>>>>> of the youngest dogs in our class. Most of the other dogs were about
>>>>>> 22 months old.
>>>>>> He has always been very mature, and very well behaved. He didn't
>>>>>> want to lie down on floors or get underneath tables, for the first
>>>>>> few months. And, he seemed to mature at lot once he hit 3 years old.
>>>>>> He has never been one of those wiggly labs, you know the ones who
>>>>>> get so excited their whole body wiggles! LOL One of my co-workers
>>>>>> just got a dog that is only 15 months old. She is very puppy like!
>>>>>> Deanna and Pascal
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry
>>>>>> Gomes
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:37 PM
>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the same could apply to labs. My current guide is a reissue,
>>>>>> so she was three when we trained together. what a difference! I
>>>>>> don't want my next guide to be 18 months old as so many are when
>>>>>> graduating. Two years old is the youngest I'd want and I'd jump to
>>>>>> have a reissue again. Though having said that, Bianca, who was about
>>>>>> 2 when we trained and is 13 now is still young at heart and full of
>>>>>> spirit and a sort of happy puppy mentality.
>>>>>> Olga,
>>>>>> my working guide is 8 and has a very old soul. I'm sure she was
>>>>>> always that way even when she was a baby.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tami
>>>>>> Jarvis
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:01 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Age of Qualifying Guide Dogs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ooh! Research! Poodles are said to mature later, both physically and
>>>>>> mentally, and I did find that with mine. She really came into her
>>>>>> own between 3 and 4. Then again, I've heard of a few people getting
>>>>>> really young poodles that seem to work out well. Okay. Off to read.
>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/19/2014 10:22 AM, "Leye-Shprintse Öberg" wrote:
>>>>>>> BS"D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Raven,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * "... I did some research and found a study on Seeing Eye dogs
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> concluded that goldens and GSds are more successful as guide dogs if
>>>>>> they're formal guide training is longer than the standard 4 months.
>>>>>> This is because these dogs mature around age 2, not 1.5 or 1.75
>>>>>> years, which is when many schools seem to be pushing dogs through.
>>>>>> Here's the link to the abstract.
>>>>>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1558787806000256
>>>>>> ..."
>>>>>>> I think this is very interesting. I know that SRF:s
>>>>>>> Ledarhundsverksamhet
>>>>>> (Guide Dogs Sweden) took the decision that the dogs needed to be
>>>>>> between the age of 2 and 3 years when they did the qualifying test
>>>>>> some years ago. The dogs here generally get around seven months of
>>>>>> training by a guide dog trainer. Anyhow, they think this has led to
>>>>>> more stable partnerships; I've any statestics tough.
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Leye-Shprintse and Hera <3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>> om
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Raven
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Raven
>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
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-- 
Raven