[nagdu] Clicker Training; was: Miniature Guide Horses
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Mon Feb 24 04:32:29 UTC 2014
Thanks, Raven, for offering Sheila and others on list this very helpful
explanation of clicker training. I'm glad that you are having such success
with clicker training, and that you and your guide dog are enjoying the
benefits of positive reinforcement training and communication methods.
Best,
Ann
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 10:27 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Clicker Training; was: Miniature Guide Horses
Hi Sheila,
I have no vision whatsoever, and train dogs of various ages and breeds and
use clicker training with all of them. The leash is only used to heel or
gesture, never to correct or punish. I've use clicker training with dogs
from 4 months to 10 years old.
GEB uses clicker training with their dogs and introduces it to all of their
grads.
You can learn so much about it by visiting clickertraining.com.
Karen Pryor is the pioneer of clicker training dogs, and you can download
her books from Bookshare. There are books for clicker training, dogs, cats,
and even horses I believe. I read both Karen Pryor's books on clicker
training dogs, and I have thoroughly explored and studied her website. Just
give the website a look see, familiarize yourself with the terminology and
methods. Try to use these methods with your own dog. It's a lot easier than
you might think.
I turned to solely using clicker training when I started dog training under
a veterinary behaviorist. None of the apprentices or volunteers were allowed
to use harsh or traditional methods of any kind. No yelling, leash
corrections, or physical force at all. At first, I thought this was
ridiculous! How could we train shelter dogs without making them do what we
wanted?
I learned very quickly that it was important to motivate and teach a dog
desired behaviors, rather than forcing them to do it. I learned to click and
treat at the right time for the right things, and saw the magic a clicker
could do.
Once I saw that while training with other dogs, I used the methods with my
own guide dog. And I agree with Ann, eliminating corrections completely has
created a more stress-free partnership. My dog is more optimistic when my
signals are not clear, and when my dog is confused or doesn't do what I
want, I focus on communicating to him what I would like him to do.
For instance, let's take running a curb. GEB taught me to give a left-anded
leash correction when the dog runs a curb. Really, there is no need for the
leash correction. Instead of correcting my dog, I just stop, heel my dog to
my side, show him that we are at the curb, then rework the error.
I would rather put more emphasis on what I want out of my dog and see that
behavior occur more often because of praise and treats. That is far better
than yanking the leash and being down on him for misbehaving or making an
error while working.
On 2/23/14, Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name> wrote:
> I have this interesting book that details how one can start a dog from
> zero and teach lots of things. The author calls these "training
> levels", and the book appears to be very detailed and thorough. $25
> will get you your very own ebook copy of the current version; the
> previous edition is available for free.
> http://www.sue-eh.ca
>
> On Feb 23, 2014, at 9:56 AM, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> An,
>>
>> That is a wonderfully thorough and concise way of describing clicker
>> training. I think Jenny does respond much better to positive
>> reinforcement, so I may slowly start incorporating clicker training
>> or similar once I learn more about it... just gotta correct Jenny's
>> scrounging problem, which is really improving in general anyway
>> *smiles*
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 02:28:37 -0700 (MST)
>> Subject: [nagdu] Clicker Training; was: Miniature Guide Horses
>>
>> Hi, Daryl,
>>
>> Yes, people frequently want to pet Panda or take her picture. And
>> they often want me to let their small children pet her or have their
>> picture taken with her. They also ask lots of questions about her.
>> I try to answer questions if I have time and to educate a bit on
>> etiquette with regard to all service animals. Panda is not crazy
>> about having strangers stick their hands in her face, so I direct the
>> petters to her neck and shoulder if I can. She mostly wants to go on
>> with her work, but she will target my hand with her nose and wait
>> patiently until I extricate us from the little or big hands. One
>> thing that is different with a miniature horse guide is that often
>> when we enter a store, restaurant, or other public place for the
>> first time, the staff and management come over and ask if they can
>> take a photo of us to put up on their wall, sometimes alongside the
>> pictures of famous celebrities who have visited the business, to show
>> everyone that it is true that they had a tiny horse in their place.
>> The funniest thing is that when we're just walking down the street,
>> people will stick their heads out of their car windows and yell,
>> "That's a big dog!" or "That's not a dog!" or "Look at the donkey!"
>> or "There's a cow!" or any number of other ridiculous things.
>>
>> You asked about clicker training--
>> Clicker training is a training method which relies on positive
>> reinforcement--what most of us would call rewards--to motivate a
>> learner to change his behavior or learn something new. And it uses a
>> marker signal, usually a mechanical clicking sound or a tongue click,
>> to mark the exact behavior which is going to be rewarded. This lets
>> the learner know just which of the many things she has done in the
>> recent past has earned the reward, and gives us time to reach into
>> our pocket to get a tiny bit of food that the learner finds valuable
>> enough to change her behavior in order to get, and to deliver that
>> reward to the learner. The reward or reinforcer does not have to be
>> a food treat, but it must be something that the trainer can deliver
>> in a short time and in a variety of settings and circumstances, and
>> it must be something that the learner finds desirable enough to want
>> to change her behavior in order to earn. Since most dogs, and
>> horses, are highly motivated by certain foods, treats are the primary
>> type of reinforcers used by clicker trainers.
>>
>> Quite a few of the guide dog schools in the U.S. now use clicker
>> training as part of their training methodology and teach a bit about
>> it to their students during the team training process. For many
>> programs, clicker training is seen as just one tool among many in the
>> toolbox, to be brought out to teach a specific task or solve a
>> particular problem with a dog.
>> Guide Dogs for the Blind in California and Oregon has gone the
>> farthest in adopting clicker training as the primary training method
>> used throughout the process of raising and training their dogs. I
>> believe it is now used by all their puppy raisers as well as the
>> professional guide dog trainers at GDB.
>> I believe they offer classes in clicker training to their students in
>> class, but I don't know if they expect all students to use this
>> method for routine handling of their dogs over the length of the
>> partnership. I believe all schools in the U.S. are still teaching
>> the use of various types of "correction", as well as the use of
>> praise and petting, to their students, as the routine way of
>> working with their dogs and maintaining the working relationship
>> between the partners.
>>
>> It has been my personal experience that when we use a
>> positive-reinforcement-based training method with our animal partners
>> and eliminate "correction" (which is another name for "punishment")
>> from our training and working relationships, a wonderful
>> transformation occurs in those relationships. The attitudes of both
>> the human and the animal partner are transformed. The animal's
>> stress level goes down because she has a much clearer idea about just
>> what the human partner wants her to do and she knows exactly how to
>> earn rewards. She now sees each walk and interaction with the
>> handler as an opportunity to perform well-understood behaviors and
>> earn rewards which are valuable to her. The handler is less stressed
>> because she is no longer worried about being the policeman of her
>> dog's behavior.
>> She
>> is focused on teaching the dog what she wants her to do, rather than
>> being focused on preventing the dog from doing what she doesn't want
>> her to do.
>> The new understanding of the handler is that if the dog doesn't
>> perform a certain behavior which is desirable to the handler, then it
>> is because the handler has not taught that behavior to the animal
>> sufficiently or not in circumstances with the level of distraction
>> that the animal is being presented with. This wipes away the beliefs
>> that the dog is "testing"
>> the
>> handler or that the dog is being stubborn or wants to be the dominant
>> partner. Clicker training and clicker handling makes each walk with
>> my guide a joy for both of us, and once most people have made the
>> switch from correction-based training to positive-reinforcement-based
>> training and handling, they do not want to go back.
>>
>> If you want to learn more about clicker training, there are many
>> sites on the Internet to explore. I suggest starting with Karen
>> Pryor's site and book, since she was the one who popularized the
>> method and gave it its name.
>> Her book, DON'T SHOOT THE DOG, is a classic and a great introduction
>> to the theory and practice of training in general, and clicker
>> training in particular.
>>
>> I hope that gives you the information you wanted, and perhaps peaks
>> your curiosity about clicker training.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl
>> Marie
>> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 8:44 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family
>> with miniature horse service animal, sues city.
>>
>> Ann,
>>
>> Thank you for that wonderfully descriptive and thorough list of
>> reasons why you have a horse. That's so awesome! Do people ask to
>> pet your horse because she's so cute? I had that yesterday in
>> Wal-mart with Jenny...
>> UGH!
>>
>> Also, I hear about Clicker training, but am not familiar with the term.
>> What is that?
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 23:47:04 -0700 (MST)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family
>> with miniature horse service animal, sues city.
>>
>> Hi, Daryl and Everyone,
>>
>> You asked how or why I switched from using guide dogs to working with
>> a miniature horse guide. Well, my decision to work with a miniature
>> horse guide was prompted by many experiences and philosophical factors.
>>
>> First of all, perhaps, was my experience with guide dogs. After
>> working for
>> 9 years with my first, wonderful chocolate Labrador guide dog, I
>> experienced
>> 2 heart-breaking attempted partnerships with one male and one female
>> German shepherd guide. I decided that, even in the case of the very
>> successful guide dog, the working lifespan of dogs is painfully
>> short, and the disruption during the period of the decline of the
>> working guide, the loss of that relationship, the time of transition
>> to a new dog guide, and the period of adjustment and team building
>> with the new dog guide, were just too stressful for me physically,
>> emotionally and in terms of time commitment for me to want to repeat
>> the process every few years. And it is even harder if you throw in
>> the occasional mismatch or match with a dog who decides he/she really
>> isn't prepared to work full time as a guide.
>>
>> Second, I am, and have always been, a horse lover. At the time I got
>> my miniature horse, I already owned 3 riding horses and was very
>> involved in their care and training. I knew that horses are
>> intelligent enough to do guide work and that many of them have the
>> temperament to do the work. I also knew that horses do look upon the
>> humans with whom they have close relationships as members of their
>> bands (families), and do take on the roles of companion and
>> guide/protector as needed. My own Arabian horse, Magnat, acted as my
>> guide both when I was riding him and when I was walking with him. I
>> had trained him to stop at changes of footing and elevation and
>> before going through doorways or gateways so that I could orient
>> myself and make sure the passage was clear. He was also a wonderful
>> retriever who would not only happily pick up grooming tools that
>> regularly flew out of my hand while I was vigorously brushing him,
>> but would also tidy up the arena by bringing me sundry objects which
>> others had dropped , like whips, hats, tissues, and little traffic
>> cones. And miniature horses have an average lifespan of 30-40 years
>> or more, compared with the 10-15 year lifespan of dogs, which means
>> you can expect an amazing, long-lasting and continuously deepening
>> relationship with one very special animal partner. Around the year
>> 2000 I began hearing reports of the Guide Horse Foundation's training
>> of the first miniature horses as guides for blind people, and I was
>> intrigued. I had not known up to that time, that there were horses
>> small enough to serve as guides.
>>
>> Third, through my interests in dogs and horses and their training
>> (obedience for dogs as well as guide work, and dressage riding and
>> general management for horses) I had become convinced that I wanted a
>> guide animal trained with methods which relied on positive
>> reinforcement rather than what is called "correction" in the guide
>> dog world. By the year 2000, methods which were based in behavioral
>> science and which relied on positive reinforcement were becoming the
>> norm in training dogs as well as most other species of animals for
>> all types of management, performance, and companionship/obedience
>> tasks.
>> However, guide dog training programs were largely entrenched in the
>> traditional methods which relied on correction both during the dogs'
>> training and in the relationship between the dog and handler after
>> placement. I had become accustomed to working with my horses and
>> dogs in the more positive way, and I no longer wanted to go back to
>> the punishment-based methods of the guide dog programs.
>>
>> Fourth, I was fortunate to be working and sharing a barn with
>> Alexandra Kurland, who is the foremost advocate of positive training
>> methods, specifically, clicker training, in the horse world. So when
>> I expressed to Alex my interest in perhaps working with a miniature
>> horse guide instead of a successor guide dog, she responded with a
>> proposal that we acquire and train a miniature horse to be my guide,
>> and that we use clicker training exclusively both to train and to
>> handle the guide horse, to which I enthusiastically agreed.
>>
>> So, in the summer of 2001, we started searching the internet for a
>> suitable young miniature horse. We found a good prospect in Florida,
>> flew down to meet her, and knew immediately that she would be our
>> little clicker guide.
>> Panda came to live with Alex in September, 2001, in the days just
>> after
>> 9-11
>> when we were all in a shocked daze, wondering what the world would be
>> like in the next months and years. She definitely proved to be a
>> bright star in a time of darkness and doubt. Panda was just 8 months
>> old when she started her training, which was a combination of both
>> basic socialization and guide training, and which lasted about 18
>> months. She was actually ready to go to work full-time earlier, but
>> we didn't want to have her begin her working life until she was over
>> two years old. Panda came to live with me and became my full-time
>> guide in the summer of 2003, and she has been the most wonderful,
>> consistent, confident, and intelligent guide that anyone could hope
>> for. She just celebrated her 13th birthday, and we have been working
>> together for ten and a half years, with the prospect of decades of
>> happy partnership ahead of us.
>>
>> In answer to your question about how guide horses work-- They do all
>> of the same guide tasks as guide dogs do, although sometimes they do
>> it a bit differently than the dogs. For example, instead of going
>> under a table or chair in a restaurant or on the bus, the guide horse
>> stands beside my chair or between the bus seats. The horses don't
>> sit as dogs do, but they either stand or lie down instead. They do
>> all the usual guide tasks such as stopping at curbs and stairs, going
>> around obstacles, changing speed for uneven footing or for ice, mud,
>> water, etc., looking out for overhead obstacles, turning left and
>> right on cue, monitoring moving vehicles at driveways and street
>> crossings and exercising intelligent disobedience when necessary, and
>> finding specific places in the environment, such as doors to go
>> inside or outside, elevators, stairs, checkout counters, pedestrian
>> signal buttons, home, etc. And yes, they are housetrained and
>> relieve on leash and on cue, just as the dogs do.
>>
>> The organization I mentioned earlier, the Guide Horse Foundation,
>> trained the first working guide horse team, Dan Shaw and Cuddles, in
>> the spring of 2001. That organization trained a few more teams in
>> the next couple of years. But as far as I can tell, they haven't
>> been active in recent years.
>> All of the active teams that I am aware of, except for Dan Shaw and
>> Cuddles, have miniature horses which were privately trained or owner
>> trained.
>>
>> I hope that answers some of your questions.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl
>> Marie
>> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 12:47 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Miniature Guide Horses WAS Cincinnati Family with
>> miniature horse service animal, sues city.
>>
>> Hi, Ann,
>>
>> May I ask what prompted the change from guide dogs to guide horse?
>> Who trains a guide horse? Does it guide similar to a dog? I am very
>> curious!
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Ann Edie <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:34:56 -0700 (MST)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cincinnati Family with miniature horse service
>> animal, sues city.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> FYI, I use the same size plastic bags for picking up after my
>> miniature horse guide as I did for picking up after my dog guides.
>>
>> Also, I keep my miniature horse guide at my property, a
>> privately-owned house in the suburbs with a lot not too much bigger
>> than the one mentioned in the article. The town officials in my town
>> as well as the animal control officer and the code enforcement people
>> are all aware of the presence of my miniature horse guide, and none
>> has given me a hassle about it. My area is zoned residential and
>> does not permit what they call livestock. (I know this because the
>> neighbors and town officials certainly did react quickly when my
>> daughter attempted to keep 4 baby chickens she rescued from her 8th
>> grade biology class in a pen in our backyard. That requires a zoning
>> variance and the agreement of the neighbors.)
>>
>> Anyway, I'm not here to support the keeping of any or all of the
>> other animals, but my miniature horse at least is considerably
>> quieter than the dogs that live on either side of my property, both
>> of which bark incessantly at anyone who moves in their vicinity. And
>> as for smell, I pick up after my horse 4-6 times a day and there is
>> never a pile left in the yard, whereas the neighbors' dogs are
>> allowed to leave piles in their yards for many days before the waste
>> is picked up, if ever. And--this may be a matter of opinion--but
>> horse manure is nowhere near as bad smelling or objectionable to pick
>> up as is dog droppings.
>>
>> My miniature horse is a trained service animal and I have the same
>> right to keep her in my home and to be accompanied by her in all
>> places of public accommodation as I would if she were a dog guide. I
>> believe the family in this article may not be claiming that the horse
>> is a trained service animal for use in public, but rather as a
>> medically prescribed support animal which can be kept in the home
>> under the Fair Housing Act. I have only seen this law used in the
>> case of public housing or rental properties, so don't know if that
>> law applies to privately owned homes and to town zoning codes.
>> But
>> I have heard of a couple of court cases where the lawyers brought
>> into court a miniature horse and a large, rambunctious mastiff or
>> great Dane for the court to compare as to which might be more noisy,
>> smelly, and disruptive to neighborhood tranquility. Which do you
>> think would come out on top?
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>>
>>
>>
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