[nagdu] O&M skills

Fri Jan 31 17:25:37 UTC 2014

This is definitely a serious problem.

Sherry, is there a Lighthouse for the Blind or a Society for the Blind
in your area that offers other services?  Perhaps they might be able
to help.  I grew up in St. Louis, and I received services through both
a lighthouse for the Blind and the St. Louis Society for the Blind.
Otherwise you don't need a certified O&M instructor just to help you
with routes.  I know you mentioned one friend...  Are there others who
might be willing to help.  All you probably need is someone who is
healthy enough to walk around a fair bit and understands a little bit
about how you travel.  My mom has been able to help me with routes
before, though this is not ideal.

On 1/31/14, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Would they come to Montreal?
>
> Amanda
>
>> On Jan 31, 2014, at 11:37 AM, "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> i KNOW SOME FOLKS WILL DO IT PRIVATELY BUT YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE TO PAY
>> THEM. L
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>
>>
>>> Me too. I live in Montreal and am forever on a waiting list.
>>>
>>> Amanda
>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2014, at 11:22 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Melissa.
>>>> Please do ask.  I think there are lots of people who'd like to know,
>>>> including me.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "melissa R green"
>>>> <graduate56 at juno.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2014 11:00 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if there is a way to get around being a client of rehab just
>>>>> to get
>>>>> services like O&M.
>>>>> there just has to be a way.
>>>>> I have a really good instructor who also worked at a guide dog school.
>>>>> Not all people are working or going to school.
>>>>> they just want to live their life.
>>>>> Might have to ask my instructor.
>>>>> I am curious now.
>>>>> best wishes,
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Melissa R Green
>>>>> "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole
>>>>> staircase." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracy Carcione"
>>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:17 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Julie M.
>>>>> I agree wholeheartedly.  Being afraid to go out is very sad.  It also
>>>>> disgusts me to hear of people who want to get training but can't find
>>>>> anyone
>>>>> to provide it.  It ought to be a basic thing provided by any state
>>>>> agency
>>>>> for the blind, to help any blind person who asks for it get timely
>>>>> training
>>>>> in O&M.  Is there anything we can do about this?  And I don't mean
>>>>> just
>>>>> telling everyone to take several months out of their lives to attend an
>>>>> NFB
>>>>> center.  That's useful, but not always practical, IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hector Chevigny, in My Eyes Have A Cold Nose, wrote that he thought it
>>>>> was
>>>>> better for newly-blinded people to get a dog and get on about their
>>>>> lives,
>>>>> rather than waiting on some agency for service forever, and, often
>>>>> enough,
>>>>> being taught by the agency that he or she needed sighted help for
>>>>> everything.  Now, that was written in the 1940's or early '50's, but I
>>>>> can
>>>>> still see some merit in the argument.
>>>>> It's a darned good thing that Leader has its cane class.  I wish there
>>>>> were
>>>>> more options for people who can't seem to get the services they need.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie McGinnity"
>>>>> <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:52 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tracey,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with you, and that's a great speech.  I think it's great to
>>>>>> work on O&M skills, but some people just have a harder time with
>>>>>> directions and orientation.  Does that mean this should stop them?
>>>>>> No.  But it does mean that they have to ask for help more often when
>>>>>> finding a particular place or navigating somewhere for the first
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> It's about independence: getting where you need to go with no
>>>>>> inconvenience to yourself or others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The tools we use to do this don't matter as much as that we are
>>>>>> getting out there and doing what we want to accomplish.  We all know
>>>>>> people who's skills may not be as good or who may not do things the
>>>>>> "right" way--or so we think, but let's work harder to encourage those
>>>>>> people who don't go anywhere, feel like they can't travel, or are too
>>>>>> afraid to get training of any kind.  Those cases to me are truly sad.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/30/14, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I couldn't agree more, and sadly, we will see more peo9ple without
>>>>>>> skills perhaps as good as yours or mine, but if you can do what you
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> do, in a manner that is comfortable for you, far be it for me to
>>>>>>> judge
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> independence or lack thereof.
>>>>>>> Darla & Handsome Huck
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>>>>> Carcione
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:03 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] O&M skills
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I agree that good orientation skills are an excellent thing,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> using a dog a lot better for both partners, I've known some people
>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>> didn't seem capable of finding their way out of the proverbial paper
>>>>>>> bag,
>>>>>>> and yet used the dog effectively to get where they wanted to go.
>>>>>>> A late lamented friend of mine always seemed confused about which way
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> go,
>>>>>>> but he travelled all over the country and the world, going places
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> I'll never go.  Was he the ideal dog user?  No.  Did he get where he
>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>> to go, when he wanted to get there?  Absolutely.  Yet he was sneered
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> people who seldom stepped outside their familiar routes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I recommend people read, or re-read, Jernigan's essay, The Nature of
>>>>>>> Independence, which I'm sure is somewhere on nfb.org. Dr. Jernigan
>>>>>>> argues
>>>>>>> persuasively that getting where you want to go when you want to go is
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> quintessence of independence, and judging others for how they
>>>>>>> accomplish
>>>>>>> that goal is not particularly useful.
>>>>>>> All I'm trying to say is, we can encourage people to improve their
>>>>>>> O&M
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> high standard, and help them find the resources they need to do so,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> look down on them if they're unable to do it, or assume that, if
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> O&M
>>>>>>> doesn't seem excellent, that they are not independent people getting
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> they want to go.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Julie McG
>>>>>> National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
>>>>>> Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>>>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>>>> and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
>>>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>>>> life."
>>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16