[nagdu] acceptance of owner training was Arkansas School Refuses To Hold Leash For 7-Year-Old Boy's Service Dog

Tue Jul 15 03:04:30 UTC 2014

rox,
What was the publication that you were going to write the article for? I am just curious. 

Marsha drenth  
email: marsha.drenth at gmail.com  
Sent with my IPhone  
Please note that this email communication has been sent using my iPhone. As such, I may have used dictation and had made attempts to mitigate errors. Please do not be hesitant to ask for clarification as necessary. 

> On Jul 14, 2014, at 3:49 PM, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Like Julie said, I think this list, and NAGDU in general is far more educated about owner training.  I'm not sure why this is, but I would agree this other lists, not so much. I have been kicked off lists before for being an owner trainer.  Also, people seem to think that when ever I talk about my experiences as an owner trainer that I'm trying to convince everyone else to do it, and I have noticed some other owner trainers, or people wanted to owner train, putting disclaimers before their statements.  
> Also many blindness professionals, O&M Instructors, CRC's, VRT's etc. are against owner training.  
> I was going to write an article for a newsletter for Deafblind people, and when the O&M responsible for editing the article saw it was about my personal experience owner training, I was promptly told to go hang, and this was about 2 years ago.  
> Most sighted people don't care, or they think it's neat, or they want to know how I do this or that.  
> Slowly, we are getting there and educating.  It's not for everyone, or most people, but it works for me. 
> 
> Rox and the kitchen Bitches: 
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:54 PM, Julie J via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I think owner training is more accepted than it once was, but to say that it is "accepted" as in the same way service dogs from programs are accepted...I don't think so.
>> 
>> The folks on this list tend to be more accepting of owner training, but even here there are people who think it is dangerous and the dog won't be trained to the same level as a progam dog.  
>> 
>> If you talk about owner training a guide dog as a blind person on email lists for other types of service dogs, you will generally meet with great resistance.  I think because blind people are near the bottom of the social status disability ladder.  So blind people couldn't possibly train their own guides.
>> 
>> I've had blind people, who are cane users, say pretty awful things about my choice to owner train.  Mostly that happened in the beginning though.  I guess enough people have seen my dogs work, at least in my home area, that it's no longer an interesting topic of conversation.
>> 
>> Sighted people I encounter in my day to day life couldn't care less, for the most part.  Mostly they see a blind person and a dog and they fabricate the rest of the story based on what they saw on TV.  The part about my having trained the dog doesn't come up very often.  Generally I don't bring it up.  Sometimes people ask though, and I am very open about the fact that I trained him.  I think a lot of times they want to know where I got the dog because they have some knowledge or affiliation with some program or another.  When they find out I trained him, they are astonished that it is legal/possible or they want to know if it's legal.  I'm not sure what the immediate response of, "is that legal", says about our culture...too many laws?...too much restriction on our freedom?...a statement about what disabled people's place in society?  I don't know.
>> 
>> Then we get to service dog programs...there are a couple that don't react like beligerant idiots about owner trained dogs, but the rest...well, I'll just stop there.  The short version is that most of the guide and service dog programs do not like the idea of owner training.
>> 
>> anyway, that's my opinion based on my personal experience.  It will be interesting to see what other owner trainers have experienced.
>> Julie
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Jul 14, 2014, at 1:24 PM, Danielle Antoine via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Tami,
>>> I like how you dissected my points. that's what I was looking for.
>>> Buddy, whether or not it was your intention you came at me like the
>>> enemy! Any veteran who has worked in the service dog arena personally
>>> or who has availed themselves of the many lists know that a specific
>>> program does not have to be named and that owner-training is
>>> recognized and acceptable. I, myself, am not in the right situation in
>>> life to take it on. It is a lot less trouble for me, at this point to
>>> just attend a training program for my nex guide. I was just curious
>>> because I wondered what program would give license to a 7-year-old
>>> child to handle and be responsible for a dog requiring an additional
>>> person. Just seems sooooo unnecessary! As for me, my pup is retired
>>> and living the good life of a pet dog and children and exes don't
>>> count at this time. Good day, Sir.
>>> 
>>> Best with your owner training undertakings,
>>> Danielle Ledet and retired Seeing Eye Golden girl, Eden
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 7/14/14, Tami Jarvis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Rebecca,
>>>> 
>>>> You're right about the dog's ability to sense the seizure (or whatever
>>>> medical disorder) -- it can or it can't. However, the difference between
>>>> a plain old dog that happens to be able to detect seizures and a medical
>>>> alert service dog is whether the dog is trained to perform a specific
>>>> alerting behavior. Often the medical alert SD will perform additional
>>>> actions, like getting the handler to a safe place to prepare for the
>>>> seizure, laying on the handler to help prevent injury during the seizure
>>>> and a few other things. The article mentioned that the dog has
>>>> eliminated the need for medication, so I guess locating the medicine
>>>> bottle for the handler wouldn't be needed.
>>>> 
>>>> As for the rest, I just don't know. Part of it is that I am not all that
>>>> well-informed about the issues when it comes to kids, service dogs and
>>>> schools. I can see both sides, depending on which way I squint. I wonder
>>>> if having a staffer handle the dog in this case could be considered to
>>>> be the equivalent of having a staffer push a wheelchair? Or do the dog's
>>>> needs for handling make it that much more demanding?
>> 
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