[nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program inorder to get a guide dog

Becky beckyasabo at gmail.com
Thu Jul 24 12:01:37 UTC 2014 

Hi 
My name is Becky. I had home training with my current guide dog through Guiding Eyes for the blind.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 23, 2014, at 12:39 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Have you called any of the schools that offer home training for
experienced guide dog handlers and explained your situation? Some
program might make an allowance for you.

> On 7/23/14, Barb breuer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I would love to have a dog through a school as my first dog.  But with most
> schools having a four week course for first timers, that makes things a bit
> for difficult .
> 
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
> 
> 
> ------ Original Message ------
> 
> From: Julie J.
> To: barbandzoe at comcast.net, NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
> Guide Dog Users
> Sent: July 23, 2014 at 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program inorder
> to get a guide dog
> 
> Barb,
> 
> There's the Accelerated Mobility Program through Leader Dogs right there in
> Minnesota.  It's a one week intensive long white cane mobility course.  I
> would think that it would fulfill the requirement for formal cane travel
> training you are needing.   You aren't obligated to get a guide dog through
> Leader after completing their cane mobility program.
> 
> If you want to owner train and feel that is the best fit for you, then by
> all means go for it.  However, I think if you choose owner training out of a
> place of frustration and despair, it's going to be problematic.  I've owner
> trained three dogs and I'm telling you, it isn't easy.  I don't mean the
> actual working with the dog, I mean the mental and emotional toll is high.
> You will be pushed to your limit, repeatedly.  You will have to advocate for
> yourself every step of the way.  People who you thought would support you
> will disappear.  You have to train the dog every, single day, no matter how
> tired you are or how bad work sucked that day or how many feet of snow is on
> the ground.
> 
> You can also get hurt.  I mean physically injured.  You need good
> orientation skills, good cane skills, a good knowledge of your area or some
> way of knowing how to help your dog learn to navigate the environment.  In
> the beginning the dog won't know what to do and then there'll be a squirrel
> and before you know it, you're being taken on a joy ride through the park.
> You have to be able to figure out what happened, how to work the dog through
> it, how to correct the behavior in future and most immediately how to get
> yourself safely out of the situation  That's physically demanding, but
> probably more so it's mentally and emotionally exhausting.
> 
> There were days, actually quite a lot of days, where I would come home from
> a work out with Monty and I would just sit on the couch and stare at the
> wall for half an hour because it was all so overwhelming.   I would get so
> embarrassed by his horrid behavior that I swore off leaving the house ever
> again.   I got over it, of course, but I'm not kidding when I say that I
> learned humility.
> 
> I'm here if you ever want to talk.  I want you to be successful in whatever
> you choose.  I do want you to understand that owner training isn't easy.  It
> is one of the most difficult things I've ever done, but it's also one of the
> most rewarding.
> 
> Julie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barb breuer via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:01 AM
> To: Cindy Ray ; Name, Full
> Cc: Julie J.
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program inorder
> to get a guide dog
> 
> 
> I have been looking into going to a school, I found only two that have the
> two week program for first time dog owners. And I live in Minnesota so
> Freedom will not work with me, I called them.
> I have had no formal O&M training. If I want training, and I want to get my
> state organization to pay for it, I need to combine it with other kinds of
> training, school, job stills. witch I have done through them and I don't
> think they are going to help me go to school unless i have a really good
> career idea. So I am on my own for the training.
> So the schools want O&M training, I had a trainer fill out the paper that
> said I could travel, but the schools want the training.
> 
> I am really thinking that if I want a guide dog I will have to train one
> myself.
> barb
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>, "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 7:37:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program in order
> to get a guide dog
> 
> Julie, I always love your well-thought out responses. The things you have
> listed are probably the reasons I would not see myself doing the owner
> training thing, though I love the idea of the completed project. Who
> wouldn't?
> But one thing you didn't mention is how far ahead you have to be looking,
> how far into the future should you be training your own dog. My dog is
> eight. He probably is fine now, and when it is time for him to retire, I can
> apply to the school for another. Since I've been there already, I usually
> don't have to wait a really long time for a replacement. If I am training my
> own dog, I should probably have already started that process as you have
> with Monty, and I don't know if I'm spelling that right. It almost seems to
> me as if, with the exception of maybe a year or two, one would almost always
> be training a dog.
> 
> Cindy
> 
>> On Jul 23, 2014, at 7:28 AM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree with Tami. the customization and flexibility is the main
>> difference. Well, other than the obvious, an owner trained dog is trained
>> by the owner and a program trained dog is trained by a program trainer.
>> 
>> As an owner trainer, I have the flexibility to use the training methods
>> that I prefer. I can feed the food I choose. I can vaccinate and provide
>> health care that I feel is best for my dog. I can use equipment that I
>> choose. And I can choose the specific skills to train my dog, which are
>> most meaningful to me. For example my current guide is not trained for
>> escalators because there isn't a single escalator in the town where we
>> live. It doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time on that skill when I
>> won't be using it. However he is quite skilled at sidewalkless travel and
>> targeting locations of interest across large open spaces because those are
>> 
>> skills I need and use frequently.
>> 
>> With a dog from a program you get training that is a little bit of
>> everything so it will fit the widest possible range of possible handlers.
>> Nothing wrong with that and certainly that training can be customized when
>> 
>> you get home or you can make your needs known to the program so they can
>> do a bit more advanced training with you while your there on the things
>> you'll be using most often. Still, it's like Rebecca's house analogy. If
>> you purchase an existing house, you can do some remodeling, paint or put
>> in new carpet, but the main structure and foundation remains. With an
>> owner trained dog/a custom built home, you design every element exactly as
>> 
>> you like all the way through the process.
>> 
>> The trade off is a load of time, effort and resources. Training your own
>> dog takes an incredible amount of work. You won't be doing much in the way
>> 
>> of fun, career advancement, family expansion or personal projects while
>> you are training a guide dog. It requires daily effort in the way of daily
>> 
>> training sessions at home, on the streets and eventually in public places.
>> 
>> You have to think ahead to what the dog is ready for, what skills are
>> needed, how to teach them, what to do when plan A doesn't work, who to
>> call for help, and assessing your progress honestly. You will need a lot
>> of resources to be able to owner train your own guide. It costs money. It
>> doesn't seem like a lot to me from month to month, but it most certainly
>> does add up. However because you aren't spending a whole lot of time on
>> frivolous entertainment, perhaps it all averages out? I'd still plan on a
>> couple thousand dollars to cover expenses. You also need some people to
>> help you. I don't mean to help you train the dog. that would be kind of
>> nice, but it isn't called owner training for nothing. Even if you do find
>> a trainer to assist you, it is still you making all the decisions about
>> what training to be doing. Mostly though, I mean you need people to give
>> you some honest feedback about your dog. Sometimes you will be so
>> enthralled with the process you will miss the forest because the trees get
>> 
>> in the way. Having someone watch you with the dog and providing feedback
>> helps incredibly. the person doesn't have to be super educated about guide
>> 
>> dogs. You'll be able to sift through their comments and sort what is a
>> legitimate concern with what is lack of understanding about guides.
>> Perhaps the most important thing you need from your people is support.
>> Owner training is incredibly mentally and emotionally taxing. You need
>> people to reassure you that you aren't nutters, yes, I can guarantee there
>> 
>> will come a day when you question your sanity. You need people to talk to
>> when things get tough and you need to do some problem solving. You also
>> need people who will give you a high five when things are awesome, people
>> who will celebrate with you.
>> 
>> Julie
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Tami Jarvis via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 10:49 PM
>> To: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com ; NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>> Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Owner Trained Versus Guide Dog School Program in
>> order to get a guide dog
>> 
>> Helga,
>> 
>> Not a silly question at all! The difference between the owner-trained
>> dog and the program-trained dog once the training is completed is that
>> the owner-trained dog is likely to be more customized to the handler. A
>> program-trained dog can be customized to some degree once it goes home
>> with its new handler, depending on the skill of the handler and the
>> wishes of the program.
>> 
>> The differences in the process of ending up with a working guide are
>> more profound. To get a program guide, you have to fill out a bunch of
>> forms and jump through some hoops, wait to hear if and when you'll get
>> the dog, then go get it. More or less. Most programs will provide
>> transportation to their facility, room and board, and instruction in how
>> to use a guide dog and to handle your new dog in particular. Most will
>> send you home with a starter kit including grooming supplies, toys,
>> working gear, and even dog food. Follow up may include vet expenses, as
>> well as answers to questions or further training for you or your dog if
>> you need it to develop into a strong working team. You will start out
>> with an adult dog, raised specifically for the job, with a good set of
>> house manners, good social etiquette and task training. That's a very
>> generalized overview, of course. /smile/
>> 
>> To owner-train, you first have to find the right dog. This can take some
>> time, a lot of research, more time, more research, and often evaluating
>> a number of candidates before finding the right one. You may decide to
>> start with a puppy, so you have total control of its rearing, which
>> means you will be busy for about 2 years (depending on how fast your dog
>> learns and matures). Or you can get an older pup, which has pros and
>> cons. Getting your hands on a dog that is closer to adulthood will get
>> you a guide dog faster, but you have to watch out for emotional baggage.
>> 
>> You will need to then train the dog, which means every day, building the
>> skills for the job and the manners for public access. Some phases of
>> training are relatively dangerous, so you need to be aware and figure
>> out how to teach the dog to be safe without getting hurt in the process.
>> You will be buying your own gear, kibble, grooming equipment, paying all
>> vet expenses, stuff like that. At some point, you'll need to transition
>> from trainer to handler, which can be interesting. All along the way,
>> you need to be able to evaluate your dog for fitness and be ready to
>> wash it out if necessary. You will need to learn the laws thoroughly and
>> be ready and able to self-advocate.
>> 
>> The reasons people choose to owner-train instead of getting a guide from
>> a program vary. For myself, I can think of various and sundry items on
>> my list of reasons why, but when it comes down to it, I think I do it
>> because I want to. Also, I love training and the challenges and chills
>> and thrills and, well, all of it. /smile/
>> 
>> Again, that's a quick and dirty overview, very generalized.
>> 
>> Tami
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 07/22/2014 07:58 PM, Helga via nagdu wrote:
>>> Hi all! How are you all? I just wanted to ask you, what is the difference
>>> 
>>> between a owner trained and a guide dog school program in order to get a
>>> guide dog? I'm just wondring since I'm plannin to get a guide dog next
>>> year! Sorry for asking this silly question!, which I'm suppose to know!
>>> the answer for! Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks and God bless!
>>> Helga Schreiber
>>> 
>>> Fundraiser Coordinator for Phi Theta Kappa, Alpha Delta Iota chapter
>>> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of
>>> Blind Students
>>> Member of The International Networkers Team (INT)
>>> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research
>>> 
>>> Phone: (561) 706-5950
>>> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com
>>> Skype: helga.schreiber26
>>> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx
>>> INT Website: http://int4life.com/
>>> 
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that
>>> whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John
>>> 3:16
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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-- 
Raven
"if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
http://dogtorj.com

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