[nagdu] Dogs finding things here and abroad

Fri Jun 6 19:04:04 UTC 2014

Well, a couple of things here. TSE actually extended their training a month and most, though clearly not all, dogs go out after they are two. Fisher was 30 months.

They teach “find the stairs” “door” and I was given clues as to how to teach it. Once they know “find the” you could teach them to find whatever you need them to find. It is up to me to stress finding the things I want them to find the most and keep them up on it. The dogs, as I see it, have basic training; I need to be able to get them to do my bidding, I think. I sort of hope I am sensible enough to be able to do that.

I have wondered about the short work life of dogs myself. Some of it, I think, is that dogs have a lot more responsibilities than they did. Traffic patterns are more stressful than they were in the cities and sixties? Also, if you are pinning more and more responsibilities onto your dogs, are they not under more stress? I respectfully don’t buy the business about the poisons, etc. mentioned, but that’s anyone’s right to accept and believe, but dogs in general are living reasonably long lives and are still using these same things. So I don’t know. I am sure it is a mix, but I really feel that the dogs are willing and able to do their work but are in unnatural environs when they work through buses, trains, whatever, and then are required to work in an office or whatever from 8-5. That’s not natural even though they do it well after they are trained into it. Some of these owner trained dogs aren’t working any longer than the others either. Is it because they just want the dog to enjoy a longer retirement? Is it because you have to plan farther ahead if you are going to train your next dog? 

I am sure though that with the increased use of dogs there is some pushing through earlier for some places. It is an interesting question.

Cindy Lou
cindyray at gmail.com

On Jun 6, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> From what I've heard from veteran guide dog travelers, it sounds like
> the schools are teaching these dogs less and less as years go by.
> Perhaps this is partially because of the increased demand for guide
> dogs over the years.
> Also, this is just a shot in the dark, so correct me if I'm wrong, but
> many guides are retiring early nowadays. Too many guides are either
> just not working out right out of the gate, or they retire at 5, 6, or
> 7 due to some illness. I blame most of the former on guide dog
> schools' poor screening process for prospective students. I blame the
> ladder on the myriad of poisons we are taught to expose our dogs to in
> order to so-called "protect" them.
> I also think that dogs are being pushed through far too early here, as
> I have expressed on other threads. For instance, guide dog schools in
> other countries, such as the guide dog school of Sweden only turns out
> dogs between 2-3 years of age. Here, many schools are pushing dogs
> through as early as 14 months, when they are still growing, mentally
> and physically, and have a lot of maturing to do.
> I've spoken to a woman who has trained different kinds of service dogs
> and she says this is happening across the board as far as pushing
> adolescent dogs through these programs to offset cost and meet demand.
> Unfortunately, no one benefits from a rushed training. Dogs are unable
> to practice with and learn from the professional trainers as much as
> they should know in order to provide effective and extensive
> assistance to their disabled handlers.
> 
> 
> On 6/5/14, Steven Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Tracey, Leader still teaches this.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:09 PM
>> To: Dan Weiner; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dogs finding things here and abroad
>> 
>> I had heard that Leader and GDF both teach a lot of "find the ...".  Is
>> that
>> not true anymore?
>> 
>> My very favorite is GDF's "Find the Way", with it's marvellous mystical
>> connotations, as one who studies the Tao. Who better to find the Way than a
>> dog?
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dan Weiner via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'Craig Heaps'" <craig.heaps at comcast.net>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:18 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Dogs finding things here and abroad
>> 
>> 
>>> Now here is a question.
>>> Having looked over the archives I see Viviana asks about the
>>> differences between guide dogs here and abroad.
>>> This  queery, , coupled with our thread about finding the light poles
>>> or the button etc brings me to a question:.
>>> 
>>> Dog guide handlers, users, whatever you want to say from other
>>> countries tell me about their dogs being trained to find seats, poles,
>>> really all sorts of things and it does seem from talking to them (some
>>> of them I do trust as I've known them for years) it seems that the
>>> dogs are successful at doing this and really are good at it right out
>>> of training.
>>> In the case of all of my dogs, they have learned but it has taken me
>>> halling butt and working really hard at it to get it  to be
>>> consistent.
>>> This is not only the case with me but with most or all of my dog guide
>>> using friends here.
>>> 
>>> Also the web sites and literature from the guide dog organizations
>>> abroad talk about the dogs being trained to find myriad things, seats,
>>> bus stops mail boxes, doors (the dog putting their nose on the
>>> handle), benches, many many things.
>>> So, are the dogs in Europe say taught in a mmore consistent way to
>>> dfind things and then why isn't it that our dogs aren't?
>>> 
>>> Curious to hear points of view on this or maybe say, from our Swedish
>>> guide dog user here as to how things aare there and opinionions from
>>> everyone on this subject.
>>> 
>>> Cordially,
>>> 
>>> Dan and the Parker Pup
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Heaps
>>> via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 12:01 PM
>>> To: Daryl Marie; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>> Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Crosswalk light success!
>>> 
>>> Yay!
>>> 
>>> I taught Chase "Find the button".  He likes that game because it means
>>> treats.  But now he finds every button, even when I don't give the
>>> command.
>>> Better all than none, I suppose.
>>> 
>>> He also sometimes gets locked onto the dog urine odors at the base of
>>> the pole and doesn't look up for his treat.
>>> 
>>> Craig and Chase
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Daryl Marie via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:10 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Crosswalk light success!
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hey!
>>>> Ever since training with Jenny, we have struggled with scrounging
>>>> (I've posted about this).  One of her favorite scrounging/sniffing
>>>> places is at the base of crosswalk light poles (where you push the
>>>> button to change the
>>> 
>>>> light).  On a whim on Monday night, I got off the bus one stop early
>>>> to do
>>> 
>>>> some work with her on finding these posts.  It wasn't pretty.
>>>> Me: Jenn, find the post.
>>>> Jenny (misses the post entirely and goes around the corner)
>>>> Me: Not quite, my  girl.  Let's try again.
>>>> We turn around, Jenny goes right past the post while I flail around
>>>> trying
>>> 
>>>> to find it.
>>>> Rinse, lather, repeat.
>>>> Third time:
>>>> me: Jenny, find the post.
>>>> Jenny finds the post but starts scrounging.
>>>> Me: Good post, nose up.
>>>> We take the corner again, turn around.
>>>> Me: Jenny, find the post.
>>>> Jenny finds the post, her shoulders right below the button, her nose
>>>> is up.
>>>> Me (throwing a fiesta): YAY!  Good girl!
>>>> 
>>>> Now for the past three days, every time I ask for a post, she has
>>>> found it
>>> 
>>>> perfectly and kept her nose up!  Her tail wags even before I praise
>>>> her, because she knows she's done good!
>>>> 
>>>> SO proud!
>>>> 
>>>> Still need a little work on scrounging in general, but this is SO good!
>>>> 
>>>> Hope this encourages those who are struggling with distractions or
>>>> scrounging that it can be done.
>>>> 
>>>> Daryl
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/craig.heaps%40comca
>>> st.net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc
>>> .net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.n
>>> et
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ravend729%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Raven
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com