[nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.

Tracy Carcione carcione at access.net
Mon Jun 9 17:40:21 UTC 2014 

It was a fanatical love of the long white cane, (emphasis on the long), as 
not just a tool, but the symbol and embodiment of independence.  If you did 
not love the long white cane, clearly you were not living up to 
yourpotential for independence, and probably weren't comfortable with your 
blindness, either.  And, of course, dog users don't use a cane as their 
primary independence tool, so ... To which I give a hearty Bronx cheer! 
Pfffff.

I may be overstating it a bit, but that's what it was.
Tracy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon A. Olivares via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the National 
Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.


May I ask what this former philosophy was? I’ve not been familiar with the 
NFB long enough to really be in the loop on such matters, and am curious why 
dogs might not have been as accepted as they are today.
On Jun 9, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> I don’t know. Maybe I missed something. Everyone who can ought to have 
> good cane skills; there are clearly people who cannot. My ex-husband had 
> as good of cane skills as he could with his hearing loss; it created 
> problems when he didn’t have a dog. Most of us aren’t going to have a fall 
> back dog if the dog gets sick. As for the NFB’s philosophy, that ship has 
> pretty much sailed. We aren’t back in the 70s and 60s or even 80s and 
> early 90s anymore, so I should think we should let the former cane dog 
> controversy go to bed. Sure, there are still vestiges of it; but it isn’t 
> an NFB thing. The use of dogs has , in general, increased since the time 
> of the former philosophy, though the NFB always had to accept dogs, for 
> instance, at conventions. Some of us as individuals are less tolerant than 
> many others in the public maybe, but it is still not a part of the NFB 
> philosophy, and many folks have changed their minds on the issue. I, for 
> instance, used to think much as that former philosophy dictated. But I 
> truly believe that a person needs to be independent in whatever way it is 
> possible and that most of us should become as capable of using a cane as 
> we can in the event of problems that we would rather not thing of 
> occurring.
>
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
> On Jun 9, 2014, at 11:14 AM, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Dan, I'm going to agree with you here.  I'm deafblind with some pretty 
>> severe vestibular issues which cause my balance to be very bad.  If I did 
>> not have a dog, I'd need to be with a person all the time.  I cannot use 
>> a cane because if I don't use a dog, I use a walker.
>> I usually have 2 dogs— one semi retired and one young whippersnapper.  If 
>> one gets sick I have a fallback.  I also know my resources and have 
>> things like paratransit that I can use to go where I'd need although it'd 
>> be slower and way more awkward.
>> If blindness is your only disability, I do think it's important to use 
>> your cane from time to time.  But also to understand that for some of us, 
>> that's just not reality.
>> It doesn't make anyone better than anyone else much like me using a sign 
>> language interpreter does not make me any less able or less of a person 
>> than someone who can hear.
>>
>>
>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh well, you guys are very competent cane users and I certainly give you
>>> credit.
>>>
>>> I however will not mince words in my experience a dog is far superior to 
>>> the
>>> long white cane.
>>>
>>> Having said that, I know that different people use different tools well 
>>> but
>>> I will tell you that the most active times of my life were made possible
>>> because of my using a dog and my motivation, both go together of
>>> course--smile
>>>
>>> The training I received with a guide dog and my interaction with the dog 
>>> as
>>> well as my high motivation  made my travel experience pretty awesome.
>>> I  surmize   that some of  my fellow federationsists like to downplay 
>>> the
>>> benefits their dogs have given them because they feel shy about saying 
>>> too
>>> much in praise of a dog  because maybe   it would undermie or contradict
>>> federation philosophy in some way.
>>> .
>>> I however am not ashamed to say that I went to Japan and studied there 
>>> for
>>> almost two years with my Labrador guide, Evan, and negotiated very 
>>> crowded
>>> conditions and got all around Tokyo.
>>> The fact that I knew I would be able to go around people and obstacles, 
>>> etc.
>>> and just the thrill of getting out there and letting Evan do his work 
>>> made
>>> me actually want to get out there and do things.
>>> I used a cane before that of course, but had been getting increasingly
>>> dependent and worried due to traffic conditions and my hearing loss on 
>>> the
>>> left side, as well as my tendency to get massively disorientated or is 
>>> it
>>> disoriented due to veering.
>>>
>>> My independent travel with a dog as compared with my independent travel 
>>> with
>>> a cane is about a ratio of five to one, maybe ten to one to be blunt.
>>>
>>> And of course, keeping cane skills up is a great idea,I'm not arguing 
>>> with
>>> that....but what I am saying is there are some things I just can't do 
>>> with a
>>> cane or do them very badly that I can with ease do with my doggies.
>>>
>>> Yours most sincerely,
>>>
>>> Dan the man, Parker the dog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary Steeves 
>>> via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 10:28 AM
>>> To: Leonard Stamper; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of 
>>> Guide
>>> Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.
>>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I think we all agree that keeping up cane skills is important on several
>>> levels.  First, it gives us all a sense of security knowing that, as 
>>> much as
>>> we love our dogs and the job they do, we know that we could get around
>>> without them.  It is very different  using the cane and dog but doable.
>>>
>>> The other reason is to give confidence to those around us.  I was 
>>> shocked on
>>> saturday when i had to get a certain intersection where my band was 
>>> setting
>>> up to play at an outdoor street festival.  My girlfriend asked how i was
>>> going to do it with out bogart?   I was sort of shocked since i'd been 
>>> in
>>> this band 6 years before bogart showed up and i'd got to many of these 
>>> types
>>> of gigs. Yes, i admit that navigating metro stations  is a bit more
>>> challenging  with cane over dog but on the other hand Iwas able to get 
>>> to
>>> the bus stop in under 2w minutes from my house, a time that bogart could
>>> never compete with. :)
>>>
>>> So just mjade me realize that i needed to reassure Susan that my cane 
>>> skills
>>> are just as d as they were before.  I actually try to plan a day full of
>>> errands all over the city when I take bogart to the groomers to make me 
>>> keep
>>> my caning up to date.
>>>
>>> Good advice and thanks for sharing with us.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>
>>> On June 8, 2014 12:55:22 PM PDT, Leonard Stamper via nagdu
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone hello everybody this is Leonard again. I had a
>>>> thought I would like to share, especially with new and potential god
>>>> dog users. I know from experience when you first get your dog you
>>>> Thelda came in the closet and probably will forget it exists. But here
>>>> is a nugget of valuable information for you to think about. As we all
>>>> know a guy dog will only work for so many years. Also, your life will
>>>> still have to go on after that dog retires. I believe it would be a
>>>> great idea, if everyone would get out the pain and just use it every
>>>> once in a while just to keep your skill set shop enough that something
>>>> was to happen to your dog, or here she has to retire you would not be
>>>> housebound or taking your life in your hands when you travel. Just
>>>> thought I would share that everybody, and your doggies stay safe and
>>>> God bless.
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> aw.ca
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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>>
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>
>
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