[nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.

Mon Jun 9 20:27:04 UTC 2014

Dan,
Like you, I also believe that the dog is a far superior mobility aid
to the cane. I have gone into great detail about my arguments on a
past thread, so I won't rehash those here.
I use my cane on an almost daily basis since I train dogs and the
Golden Guy would just get in the way, and I  don't want him exposed to
those dogs anyway.
After I first got the Golden Guy, there were a couple days a week when
I used my cane and left him behind just so he wouldn't struggle with
separation anxiety.

On 6/9/14, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I carry an NFB telescoping cane in my bag because I prefer it for when I am
> at church performing/preaching/lectoring. The dog doesn't quite get what we
> are doing and the cane is more efficient. That cane, too, is long.
>
> I used to never carry a cane with me after I got a dog, but now it helps if
> there is something I want to help the dog learn to find for me. I use a long
> cane even when walking pet dogs, especially when walking pet dogs. LOL.
>
> Cindy Lou
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
> On Jun 9, 2014, at 1:35 PM, Alyssa via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> I use a longer cane if I'm without a dog. I keep a shorter one in a
>> backpack or purse with me when I have a dog just in case. I also prefer a
>> shorter one when walking pet dogs. No matter what situation I'm in though,
>> the cane is foldable. I've had bad luck with NFB folding canes but the
>> Ambutech slim line model has proven to be good for me.
>> Alyssa
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 1:18 PM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep, I had one of those short canes, and longer is better, within reason.
>>> My husband's cane is up to my nose, and too much for me.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray via nagdu"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 1:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, I think you are over stating it a bit but maybe not much because
>>> one problem with the canes mostly handed out to people, it was a long
>>> white cane. Sometimes too long, I'd say, but in that day and age people
>>> were often using canes with a crooked handle that resembled an orthopedic
>>> cane, and really short canes such as those often handed out do not make
>>> one independent because you come to the steps, hole, curb way too fast to
>>> be reflexive.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>> Cindyray at gmail.com
>>>
>>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 12:40 PM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It was a fanatical love of the long white cane, (emphasis on the long),
>>>> as not just a tool, but the symbol and embodiment of independence.  If
>>>> you did not love the long white cane, clearly you were not living up to
>>>> yourpotential for independence, and probably weren't comfortable with
>>>> your blindness, either.  And, of course, dog users don't use a cane as
>>>> their primary independence tool, so ... To which I give a hearty Bronx
>>>> cheer! Pfffff.
>>>>
>>>> I may be overstating it a bit, but that's what it was.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon A. Olivares via nagdu"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>; "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 1:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> May I ask what this former philosophy was? I've not been familiar with
>>>> the NFB long enough to really be in the loop on such matters, and am
>>>> curious why dogs might not have been as accepted as they are today.
>>>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know. Maybe I missed something. Everyone who can ought to have
>>>>> good cane skills; there are clearly people who cannot. My ex-husband
>>>>> had as good of cane skills as he could with his hearing loss; it
>>>>> created problems when he didn't have a dog. Most of us aren't going to
>>>>> have a fall back dog if the dog gets sick. As for the NFB's philosophy,
>>>>> that ship has pretty much sailed. We aren't back in the 70s and 60s or
>>>>> even 80s and early 90s anymore, so I should think we should let the
>>>>> former cane dog controversy go to bed. Sure, there are still vestiges
>>>>> of it; but it isn't an NFB thing. The use of dogs has , in general,
>>>>> increased since the time of the former philosophy, though the NFB
>>>>> always had to accept dogs, for instance, at conventions. Some of us as
>>>>> individuals are less tolerant than many others in the public maybe, but
>>>>> it is still not a part of the NFB philosophy, and many folks have
>>>>> changed their minds on the issue. I, for instance, used to think much
>>>>> as that former philosophy dictated. But I truly believe that a person
>>>>> needs to be independent in whatever way it is possible and that most of
>>>>> us should become as capable of using a cane as we can in the event of
>>>>> problems that we would rather not thing of occurring.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy Lou Ray
>>>>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 11:14 AM, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan, I'm going to agree with you here.  I'm deafblind with some pretty
>>>>>> severe vestibular issues which cause my balance to be very bad.  If I
>>>>>> did not have a dog, I'd need to be with a person all the time.  I
>>>>>> cannot use a cane because if I don't use a dog, I use a walker.
>>>>>> I usually have 2 dogs-- one semi retired and one young whippersnapper.
>>>>>> If one gets sick I have a fallback.  I also know my resources and have
>>>>>> things like paratransit that I can use to go where I'd need although
>>>>>> it'd be slower and way more awkward.
>>>>>> If blindness is your only disability, I do think it's important to use
>>>>>> your cane from time to time.  But also to understand that for some of
>>>>>> us, that's just not reality.
>>>>>> It doesn't make anyone better than anyone else much like me using a
>>>>>> sign language interpreter does not make me any less able or less of a
>>>>>> person than someone who can hear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
>>>>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>>>>> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 9, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Dan Weiner via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh well, you guys are very competent cane users and I certainly give
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> credit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I however will not mince words in my experience a dog is far superior
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> long white cane.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having said that, I know that different people use different tools
>>>>>>> well but
>>>>>>> I will tell you that the most active times of my life were made
>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>> because of my using a dog and my motivation, both go together of
>>>>>>> course--smile
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The training I received with a guide dog and my interaction with the
>>>>>>> dog as
>>>>>>> well as my high motivation  made my travel experience pretty
>>>>>>> awesome.
>>>>>>> I  surmize   that some of  my fellow federationsists like to downplay
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> benefits their dogs have given them because they feel shy about
>>>>>>> saying too
>>>>>>> much in praise of a dog  because maybe   it would undermie or
>>>>>>> contradict
>>>>>>> federation philosophy in some way.
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> I however am not ashamed to say that I went to Japan and studied
>>>>>>> there for
>>>>>>> almost two years with my Labrador guide, Evan, and negotiated very
>>>>>>> crowded
>>>>>>> conditions and got all around Tokyo.
>>>>>>> The fact that I knew I would be able to go around people and
>>>>>>> obstacles, etc.
>>>>>>> and just the thrill of getting out there and letting Evan do his work
>>>>>>> made
>>>>>>> me actually want to get out there and do things.
>>>>>>> I used a cane before that of course, but had been getting
>>>>>>> increasingly
>>>>>>> dependent and worried due to traffic conditions and my hearing loss
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> left side, as well as my tendency to get massively disorientated or
>>>>>>> is it
>>>>>>> disoriented due to veering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My independent travel with a dog as compared with my independent
>>>>>>> travel with
>>>>>>> a cane is about a ratio of five to one, maybe ten to one to be
>>>>>>> blunt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And of course, keeping cane skills up is a great idea,I'm not arguing
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> that....but what I am saying is there are some things I just can't do
>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>> cane or do them very badly that I can with ease do with my doggies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yours most sincerely,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan the man, Parker the dog
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary
>>>>>>> Steeves via
>>>>>>> nagdu
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 10:28 AM
>>>>>>> To: Leonard Stamper; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>>>>>>> Guide
>>>>>>> Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] I have some advice I would like to share.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think we all agree that keeping up cane skills is important on
>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>> levels.  First, it gives us all a sense of security knowing that, as
>>>>>>> much as
>>>>>>> we love our dogs and the job they do, we know that we could get
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> without them.  It is very different  using the cane and dog but
>>>>>>> doable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other reason is to give confidence to those around us.  I was
>>>>>>> shocked on
>>>>>>> saturday when i had to get a certain intersection where my band was
>>>>>>> setting
>>>>>>> up to play at an outdoor street festival.  My girlfriend asked how i
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> going to do it with out bogart?   I was sort of shocked since i'd
>>>>>>> been in
>>>>>>> this band 6 years before bogart showed up and i'd got to many of
>>>>>>> these types
>>>>>>> of gigs. Yes, i admit that navigating metro stations  is a bit more
>>>>>>> challenging  with cane over dog but on the other hand Iwas able to
>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>> the bus stop in under 2w minutes from my house, a time that bogart
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> never compete with. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So just mjade me realize that i needed to reassure Susan that my cane
>>>>>>> skills
>>>>>>> are just as d as they were before.  I actually try to plan a day full
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> errands all over the city when I take bogart to the groomers to make
>>>>>>> me keep
>>>>>>> my caning up to date.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good advice and thanks for sharing with us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On June 8, 2014 12:55:22 PM PDT, Leonard Stamper via nagdu
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone hello everybody this is Leonard again. I had a
>>>>>>>> thought I would like to share, especially with new and potential
>>>>>>>> god
>>>>>>>> dog users. I know from experience when you first get your dog you
>>>>>>>> Thelda came in the closet and probably will forget it exists. But
>>>>>>>> here
>>>>>>>> is a nugget of valuable information for you to think about. As we
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> know a guy dog will only work for so many years. Also, your life
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> still have to go on after that dog retires. I believe it would be a
>>>>>>>> great idea, if everyone would get out the pain and just use it
>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>> once in a while just to keep your skill set shop enough that
>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> was to happen to your dog, or here she has to retire you would not
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> housebound or taking your life in your hands when you travel. Just
>>>>>>>> thought I would share that everybody, and your doggies stay safe
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> God bless.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>> aw.ca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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-- 
Raven