[nagdu] Feedeing lunch WAS relieving at airports was Denver airport

Thu Jun 12 21:14:31 UTC 2014

Hi all,
I also feed a small lunch. I agree that adding mor to breakfast and 
dinner wouldn't keep something in my dogs stomach all day. I leared this 
the hard way, and now my golden guy gets a small lunch and treets while 
working during the day.

Ashley and Landon

On 6/11/2014 8:28 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu wrote:
> Raven,
>
> 	Even though I haven't dealt with scavenging, that is pretty much
> what I thought as far as it being a behavior rather than a need.
> 	I don't necessarily agree with not feeding lunch. I don't remember
> the exact process that I used to determine that Lexia needed lunch and when
> to feed it and what, but I do remember that it involved several messy and
> unpleasant incidents. I don't think that increasing the size of her
> breakfast would necessarily fix the problem as her stomach would still be
> empty long enough before dinner to cause her to vomit.
>
> Nicole and Lexia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver [mailto:ravend729 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:37 PM
> To: Nicole Torcolini; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
> Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Feedeing lunch WAS relieving at airports was Denver
> airport
>
> Daryl,
> Scavenging is like jumping up on people: it's an inappropriate behavior that
> a dog has learned is rewarding. It is not out of a need for more food or
> nutrients unless your dog is scavenging in an herb garden or something like
> that. Dogs are more likely to perform those behaviors that yield rewards, so
> until the undesirable behavior no longer yields rewards, or an alternative
> behavior yields a higher value reward than the undesirable behavior, it will
> still rear its ugly head.
> On the subject of meals, feeding lunch is not necessary. If you find your
> dog has higher caloric requirements due to energy level, simply increase one
> meal or both appropriately, or feed food that is nutrient-dense.
> he only time I would advise someone to feed three separate meals is if they
> are switching from ki**le to food, or supplementing ki**le with food. Food
> digests at a different rate than ki**le, so it's important to feed  the two
> separately.
>
>
> On 6/10/14, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I don't know if it would help with scrounging  as that is not the
>> reason for Lexia getting three meals a day. Breakfast and dinner are
>> about 1.5 times the size of lunch, and lunch is a different food with
>> more fiber. Lexia seems to need a certain amount of fiber to keep
>> things working right. Also, Lexia is one of those dogs who will vomit
>> bile (not pretty) if she does not have anything in her stomach. In
>> addition, she also gets occasional snacks consisting of either a
>> greenie (which she absolutely loves) or a few of the Science Diet
>> biscuits. Out of curiosity, what food do you feed and how much?
>> Does your dog seem extra hungry when you feed her? She's a lab, right?
>> Some dogs just love to eat, even if they are not particularly hungry,
>> but, then again, maybe she is not getting enough food, especially if
>> she has a lot of energy and has a high level of activity
>>
>> Lexia is my first guide dog, so I don't really have anything with
>> which to compare her, but, from what I have heard, it seems that the
>> scrounging problem is just a personality/habit thing that may not
>> really have any particular cause. Lexia does not do that much
>> sniffing/looking for food, so I haven't really had to deal with it.
>> Occasionally, she might try to grab something off of the floor in a
>> restaurant or on the plane, but it's usually to late to do anything
>> about it by the time I figure out what has happened.
>> She knows to just dive after food that is out in the open. I've
>> spilled a few pieces of dog food without knowing it until someone told
>> me later, and she did not go after it.
>>
>> Nicole and Lexia who eats lunch
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Daryl Marie
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:52 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Feedeing lunch WAS relieving at airports was Denver
>> airport
>>
>> Nicole,
>> You mention feeding lunch... Do you feed your dog more than 1-2 times
>> a day?
>> i.e. breakfast, lunch dinner?  Curious... wondering if this might help
>> with the general scrounging problem...?
>>
>> Daryl
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: 'Gary Steeves' <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>, 'NAGDU Mailing List, the
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:36:44 -0600 (MDT)
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] relieving at airports was Denver airport
>>
>> Lexia is also a grass reliever. Once, I took her to the indoor
>> relieving room at the Seatac Airport, but, she, too, would have
>> nothing to do with it.
>> If I remember correctly, the outdoor area at the Mineta San José
>> International-Silicon Valley Airport is fake grass, but it was not
>> really an issue as it smelled enough from other dogs having done their
>> business.
>> 	The flight that I take the most is from San Jose to Seatac, which is
>> not that long. I get up early enough for Lexia to have two
>> opportunities to relieve before departing for the airport, and I don't
>> let her drink immediately after the second time. I sometimes move her
>> lunch a little later, depending on the time of the flight. Just before
>> getting on the airplane, when I am doing my business for the last
>> time, I give Lexia a
>> *tiny* bit of water. As soon as I land in Seatac, I take her out, and
>> she usually does everything, but that is more from the excitement of
>> seeing my parents than from having to hold it. As a side note, one way
>> to help avoid accidents is to know what can make your dog need to go more.
>>
>> Nicole and Lexia the frequent flyer
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gary
>> Steeves via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 12:39 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] relieving at airports was Denver airport
>>
>>   Hi All:
>>
>> Bogart and I fly qutie often and I agree with everything Michael was
>> saying.
>> With bogart i stop food 12 hours before flying and water about 6 hours
>> if the flight is over 3 hours. Even on my flight  to London England he
>> didn't seem to have any problems. Once I got him outside and he went
>> pee I made sure he got some water.  If I can I try to get him a run in
>> before heading on long trips. This can be managed at my end but
>> usually doesn't work out in the place  I'm visiting. I know that
>> Bogart often goes 12 hours without going out over night so I don't
>> worry about flights.  We took a look at the relieving room in the San
>> Diego airport and bogart was having nothing to do with any of that.
>> Bogart is a grass reliever so you can imagine the issues we had
>> walking around down town London where ther just isn't much grass.
>> He
>> finally dragged me to a tree coming out of a grate and let loose a
>> great deal of liquid.  I do worry about him when  we travel,
>> especially when there are delays but it is more my anxiety than his
>> discomfort.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Gary
>>
>> PS: don't know why the previous message sent before it was done being
>> typed.
>> Not so smart phones. :)
>>
>> On May 28, 2014 7:19:02 PM PDT, Michael Hingson via nagdu
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi Kristen and all,
>>>
>>> Go in a regular bathroom?  It does sounds as if someone in Denver
>>> needs some educating.
>>>
>>> It is not the responsibility of anyone else to take your dog outside
>>> to relieve.  One possible option would be to take you outside inside
>>> the security area, but there may or may not be people to do this, and
>>> the kind of area on which your dog is use to relieving may not be
>>> available.
>>>
>>> I think it is appropriate to make one additional observation.  In my
>>> experience most guide dog schools discuss preparing to take a dog on a
>>> trip.
>>> We discuss with instructors how to cut down on water before traveling.
>>> We
>>> are also told that it might be wise to not give our dogs a meal before
>>> traveling if the dog is prone to needing to relieve.  All this is to
>>> say that with proper preparation a healthy dog should be able to go
>>> six to eight hours without relieving.
>>>
>>> We can make life more stressful by assuming that our dogs need to go
>>> out at every stop.  By doing this the dogs come to expect the trip out
>>> and we get upset when we can't take our dogs outside to relieve.  I
>>> have taken several guide dogs on long trips without any need to
>>> relieve, but I worked to train the dogs to expect this and I helped by
>>> insuring that their bladders and other parts were as empty as possible
>>> before leaving home or by taking advantage of a relieving area at the
>>> airport before going through Security.
>>>
>>> As one instructor put it to me once, "keep in mind that your dogs
>>> sleep through the night and so they can go long periods of time
>>> without relieving if you set the stage".  Let me be clear.  Some dogs
>>> may have health issues and do need to relieve more often.  However,
>>> the average dog can go for fairly long to very long times without the
>>> need to relieve.  I have taken dogs to New Zealand, Korea, Japan and
>>> the Netherlands without any stop to relieve. I travel across the
>>> United States several times a month and never look for a relief area
>>> during a lay-over except to know where they are if available in case
>>> of a future emergency.
>>>
>>> You must do your part and you must instill confidence in the dog and
>>> yourself, but it can be done.  I hope my thoughts help.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kristen via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 02:12 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Denver airport
>>>
>>> I did have an issue with that airport about a month ago. We had a
>>> layover there, and they told us that we wouldn't be able to get past
>>> security after taking Corvette outside (they had no inside
>>> area) and have time to make our flight. They also didn't offer to take
>>> him out for me and said that he should hold it or be able to go in a
>>> regular bathroom. (He did end up holding it for about 6 hours that
>>> day.) Maybe you'll have better luck!
>>> --
>>> Kristen
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: sheila via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org Date sent: Wed, 28 May 2014 14:34:36 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Denver airport
>>>
>>> okay that is good. I won't borrow trouble. I've never had trouble in
>>> other airports so I'll assume that I won't and just handle things if
>>> they come up.
>>> On 5/28/2014 2:06 PM, Sherry Gomes via nagdu wrote:
>>> I just flew in and out of Denver when I went to and returned from GDB.
>>> I
>>> was  never put in any separate sort of room. I had some trouble with
>>> ground assistance on the return but that was only with one person.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of sheila via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 1:45 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] denver airport
>>>
>>>                    denver airport        has anyone had any
>>> trouble when
>>> flying out of the denver airport as far as being put is a separate
>>> room instead of near or at the departing gate?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> sheila leigland
>>>
>>>
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>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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>
> --
> Raven
>
>
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