[nagdu] Barking WAS Re: fear and correction

Tami Jarvis tami at poodlemutt.com
Tue Jun 17 17:29:45 UTC 2014 

Raven,

Good points. I forgot about the time I spent going out to find the 
things Mitzi wants to bark at. Well, once we moved out here, we didn't 
have to go looking as much. Just taking a nice walk exposes us to all 
the distractions we need. /lol/ Specifically going out to work on that 
one thing is very useful, though, because I'm prepared to respond 
usefully without being surprised. Then when we're doing regular work, 
I'm practiced at just reminding her with the right word and gesture, 
rewarding her for obeying, and moving on. Hm... Most of the work on that 
and a couple of other things has been work on myself.

Tami

On 06/17/2014 07:43 AM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu wrote:
> Abigail,
> The appropriate approach depends on the particular circumstances. What
> provokes her to bark? Where? When? Who?
> If you outline those things, we can offer better help tailored to you
> and your girl's situation. It will also help you do some practice
> sessions outside of your typical routine. This allows for time for
> exposure to what provokes the barking, and implementing methods that
> teach her that silence is more rewarding, or maybe that what she is
> afraid of or upset by is not the bad thing she thinks it is.
>
>
> On 6/17/14, Abigail Bolling via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> When you cut the dogso cords you take away it's ability to -municate danger
>> or happiness!
>> I don't mind my puppy barking in the back yard, especially since I hear
>> Kyotes at night!
>> What I have a problem with is in harness and the reason I am so, afraid, of
>> this problem is that, like I said, My school has taken my girl away before
>> because of the barking, and it killed our bond.
>> I have called my school, and have not heard back, ′a couple weeks′
>>
>> I don't think, by all means that my dog is "super dog!" Even though my
>> princess has done a lot of amazing things!
>> I expect her to bark, sniff, eat grass, jump and play fetch, but all while
>> out of harness.
>> I have always learned, seen and been taught, not to allow these things in
>> harness. Case !case basis, what I was meaning to ask is should I correct
>> Jada ′strictly in harness′ when she barks. If so, what would be appropriate
>> or on the flip side, too much.
>> "look" seems to get her attention for distractions. So maybe that will work?
>> Haven't had to use it!
>>
>>
>> Abigail Bolling
>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let the music
>> play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 16, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Daryl Marie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree, Rebecca. We used to live next door to a dog who had his vocal
>>> cords cut.  After 3-4 years they started to grow back, and it was a
>>> horrible sound, like a gasp/hack.  It was tragic.
>>>
>>> I think there's a dog on the street by my office building that has his
>>> vocal cords cut. I hear that same sound several times a week as Jenny and
>>> I walk past.  It always makes me shudder and feel so bad for those dogs...
>>> the cutting of their vocal cords does not serve any useful purpose IMHO.
>>>
>>> Daryl and Jenny, whose bark means business
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: 'Dan Weiner' <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>, 'NAGDU Mailing List, the
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users' <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:13:09 -0600 (MDT)
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>>         Yes, Dan I agree with you on the interacting with another
>>> species. Humans have done that forever, and it is still way cool.
>>> As for barking, I've encountered dogs who have had their vocal chords
>>> removed. They still want to bark, and it makes a truly horrible sound,
>>> like
>>> they are gasping for breath. I'd rather hear the barking.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Weiner via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 4:39 PM
>>> To: barbandzoe at comcast.net; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association
>>> of
>>> Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> I think what we might be forgetting here is that these are dogs and not
>>> robots.
>>> I'm not saying to let your dog sniff or scavenge or whatever, that is a
>>> question of your comfort level.
>>> I am saying that to expect that it won't happen is making the mistake of
>>> thinking the dog is a robot, dogs sometimes sniff or look for food and
>>> bark
>>> and so on.
>>>
>>> In this way we are unwittingly falling in to the same trap as the general
>>> public who thinks that our dogs are super dogs.
>>> How many times has my dog of the moment say sniffed something and I got
>>> the
>>> dog's attention back and someone will say "I thought they didn't do
>>> that.".
>>> Or "I thought they wee trained better," or "I thought they were trained
>>> not
>>> to do that.".
>>>
>>> Now as far as barking, I suppose it really depends what the stimulus it is
>>> that is causing the problem and how often and under what circumstances.
>>>
>>> Now having said that, I do think our dogs are amazing, but not for the
>>> same
>>> reason as the well-meaning if sometimes educated public.
>>> I think the fact that we are interacting with a different species if you
>>> will to get our needs accomplished, in this case getting around, is a
>>> pretty
>>> inspiring thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely,
>>>
>>> Dan the man, Parker the dog
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:     [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barb breuer via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 4:19 PM
>>> To: Andrew
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> I would have to agree with you.  I was always told that  when the dog is
>>> in
>>> harness he is working and should acted accordingly.  But when out of
>>> harness
>>> he is a well behaved dog.  In or out of harness he should listen to you.
>>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Mobile App
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Andrew J. LaPointe via nagdu
>>> To: Sherry Gomes, NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>> Dog
>>> Users
>>> Sent: June 13, 2014 at 4:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>>             Hi, at Fidelco, I was told that it was fine to let my dog sniff
>>> out of harness.  When the harness is on, he is to be corrected if
>>> sniffing.
>>> I was told by what I look at as an expert and very well experienced dog
>>> handler that barking out of harness is acceptable.  As long as they know
>>> the
>>> differences of work and just being a dog..  Andy and Shubert
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sherry Gomes via nagdu
>>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 4:34 AM
>>> To: 'Julie J.' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> I'm the same way, out of harness sniffing and even barking are fine. I've
>>> found that being allowed to sniff out of harness is relaxing and as stress
>>> reliever for my dogs. And barking now and then doesn't bother me. None of
>>> my
>>> dogs have ever been excessive about it, barking nonstop for long periods
>>> of
>>> time. out of harness they are just dogs and I don't mind letting them be.
>>> I
>>> remember an instructor in my first guide dog class in 1975 telling us to
>>> remember that our guides were dogs first and guide dogs second. That's
>>> helped me understand my dogs better over the years but it also made me
>>> okay
>>> with doggie behavior like sniffing and barking.
>>>
>>> Sherry
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:30 PM
>>> To: Nicole Torcolini; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>>> Guide
>>> Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> But that's the thing, sniffing and barking are not a problem for me.  I
>>> freely allow both out of harness...unless he goes way overboard.  If that
>>> happens I just redirect him to something else that isn't bothersome.  I
>>> don't correct for sniffing or barking.
>>>
>>> Neither behavior, sniffing or barking, is an issue in harness.  Monty has
>>> never barked away from the house in or out of harness.  He will
>>> occasionally
>>>
>>> sniff, but it isn't a frequent thing or something that distracts him from
>>> what he's supposed to be doing.   His sniffing is more like breathing
>>> deeply
>>>
>>> in the general direction of something.  He doesn't deviate from the path
>>> and
>>>
>>> he doesn't plant his face smack into the middle of whatever it is he wants
>>> to smell.  I'm quite content with the current arrangement.   It's working
>>> for us and I see no need to change it.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Nicole Torcolini via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 7:29 PM
>>> To: 'Julie J.' ; 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> Lexia was never a barker anyway, so it is not a problem with which I have
>>> had to deal. There are some behaviors, such as running around and having
>>> fun, that I allow out of harness but not in harness. However, there are
>>> others, such as sniffing and, if it was a problem, barking, that I do not
>>> allow at all.
>>>
>>> Nicole and the quiet Lexia
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 3:58 PM
>>> To: Daryl Marie; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> I don't think I'm probably the best person for advice about unwanted
>>> barking!  LOL  My dogs bark like insane maniacs in the yard.   My
>>> philosophy
>>>
>>> is that they are dogs and dogs bark and they should embrace their dogness
>>> and bark...in the yard, in daylight hours and stop before my head starts
>>> pounding or the neighbors start complaining!
>>>
>>> It is interesting that when I have Monty out with me in the unfenced
>>> portion
>>> of the yard, he doesn't bark, like ever.  The only two places he has ever
>>> barked are in the house and in the fenced yard, both places where he's
>>> contained in some way.   Perhaps it's an issue of frustration that he
>>> can't
>>> go check out what he's looking/barking at?   I don't let him go check out
>>> random things when he's in harness, but maybe he feels like he's freer to
>>> look at things?  I don't know.  It's interesting to ponder though.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Daryl Marie via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 1:45 PM
>>> To: Julie J.
>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> Julie,
>>>
>>> Your Monty sounds a lot like Jenny in behavior.  She has only ever barked
>>> 3
>>> times  in harness:
>>> 1) When a really drunk REALLY weird guy approached me at a bus stop (I've
>>> had weird/drunk people approach me before, but this one set her off)
>>> 2) When someone was tying their shoe in the middle of a sidewalk. She
>>> couldn't go around him (busy street to  my left, 3-foot snowbank on my
>>> right)
>>> 3) When a bartender made prolonged uninterrupted eye contact with her.
>>>
>>> Usually, though, out of harness, I am almost always with her when she
>>> barks.
>>>
>>> At home I would be on the computer and she'll just perk up and bark at
>>> something.  Perhaps the redirection is a good one.
>>>
>>> This begs another question.  Sometimes Jenny will bark at neighbors if she
>>> sees them when we step outside to relieve.  This only happens at home,
>>> never
>>> anywhere else.  Any advice?
>>>
>>> Daryl and the vocal Jenny
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> To: Abigail Bolling <violingirl30794 at gmail.com>, NAGDU Mailing List, the
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:01:09 -0600 (MDT)
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] fear and correction
>>>
>>> At home I call Monty to me and praise him for coming.  If him leaving the
>>> situation and coming to me doesn't seem to enhance his calm I will use
>>> calming petting or tell him to down and stay until the UPS delivery guy is
>>> gone or the neighbors are done with their loud conversation in the street
>>> or
>>> whatever.  With Monty, it's an alert behavior.  he wants me to know
>>> there's
>>> something going on.  when I acknowledge that, he usually quits.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, he's kind of barky at home.  I've just come to accept that
>>> he's
>>> always going to let me know there's something happening outside.
>>> Interestingly he does not feel the need to bark when we are out and about.
>>> I'm okay with this arrangement.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
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