[nagdu] GDB and Gentle Leaders was RE: Update on Sophie Girland a new guide dog school

Sun Mar 2 03:36:44 UTC 2014

That's more along the lines of what I would want. I would use a halty, but
not a gentle leader. Maybe I'm being too picky about this, but I really
don't like the gentle leader. I also like the idea of using treats with it.
I trained with Lexia a little over six and a half years ago, so I don't
remember all of the details, but, as my memory serves, they did not tell us
to use treats with the gentle leader. Luckily, they did tell us not to
correct the dog with the leash when the dog was wearing the gentle leader.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 6:18 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDB and Gentle Leaders was RE: Update on Sophie Girland
a new guide dog school

At GEB, we use the Halti, and we use it more than once. The first one or two
times we work with the Halti, we associate it with treats.
We'll walk around, and give the dog treats every several steps for
tolerating the head collar and behaving. This way, the head collar means
good things to the dog.
The next few times, we use it outside on route in areas which dogs will be
more inclined to sniff or scavenge, such as places with a lot of bushes or
even the mall food court.
I'm not sure if anyone teaches the use of a head collar as a punishment. How
could you get a dog to wear something they solely associate with punishment?
Like any other properly used training collar, it is a management tool.

On 3/1/14, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Don't worry, that was not long winded. I guess what I would want is to 
> use the gentle leader either not at all or more than once in class. As 
> I said in a previous email, Lexia did fine with it the first time in 
> class, but then she absolutely refused to work once I put it on her a 
> second time at home, and I would have preferred to have a trainer 
> around to help figure out what was wrong. In any case, I don't have to 
> use one with her, but I would not want to use it once in class and 
> then come home and find out later that I do need to use one but that 
> the dog seems to absolutely  hate it the second time around. Sorry if 
> that did not make sense.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Laurel And 
> Stockard
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 5:47 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] GDB and Gentle Leaders was RE: Update on Sophie 
> Girland a new guide dog school
>
> Nicole. Yes, GDB does issue gentle leaders. We do use them at least 
> once in class, for several reasons. One being so that we know how to 
> use these gentle leaders propperly with our dogs. I for example had no 
> idea how to propperly use one of these before receiving my dog. 
> Secondly, so that we can get a feel for how our dog works in a gentle 
> leader, as you listers know, most dogs work differently in a head 
> collar device than out of one. It's not bad necessarily, just 
> different. I also want to stress that GDB doesn't use the gentle 
> leader as a punishment for the dog, although if our dogs are sniffing 
> or misbehaving, we certainly can use them. The gentle leader is not 
> viewed as a punishment but rather a management tool to help us better 
> work with our dogs out in the field. I do use the gentle leader with 
> Stockard on occasion. I know some GDB handlers who do not use it with 
> their dogs, but have no real constant need for it, and I know others 
> who use it as part of their normal working gear. For me, it depends on 
> the situation. Also, a 3rd reason for gentle leader use may be if 
> you're in a certain situation where you're trying to modify your dog's 
> pace, but not permanently. Example would be walking in a crowded in 
> door area with slower paced people in your group.
> I've seen most dogs from GDB slow down when wearing a gentle leader, 
> so it's helpful for the one time we don't wanna go at fool pace.
> Like I said, GDB uses this as a working tool not a punishment, and 
> yes, we do work with it a few times in class to get a feel for how our 
> dogs respond.
> Hope that helps answer your question Nicole, and sorry if it's a 
> little long winded.
>
> Laurel and Stockard
>
>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 14:46, "Nicole Torcolini" 
>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have a question for any of the more recent GDB graduates . Does GDB 
>> still give out gentle leaders? If so, are you required to use them at 
>> least once during training?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Minhh Ha
>> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 11:54 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Update on Sophie Girl and a new guide dog school
>>
>> Alyssa,
>>
>> Raven gave you a really thorough description of GDB's training 
>> methods and the atmosphere. I feel like GEB and GDB have very similar 
>> attitudes when it comes to training methods and interactions with 
>> their students. I went to GDB last June to train with my first guide 
>> and loved my experience. I felt like all the trainers were very 
>> approachable and I got assistance from all the instructors, not just 
>> my own. My personal instructor was a third year apprentice and she 
>> and I built a close working relationship; I felt like by the end, we 
>> were friends and I still keep in touch with her. GDB has switched to 
>> the two week program so the ratio is one instructor to two students. 
>> I loved this because I had plenty of time to work with my guide as 
>> well as get focused attention on what my needs are. GDB also went out 
>> of their way to arrange a lesson at the underground train station to 
>> give me familiarity with working with my guide when I went back home 
>> and had to use the subway in the city. Another aspect I love is that 
>> GDB encourages puppy raiser contact and they help to initiate that 
>> relationship. The handler can choose to stay in touch with the raiser 
>> as much as they want, but at least they give you the option to do so.
>> For me it's really important that I know how my guide was like when 
>> she
> was a puppy and if I have any problems, she can help me to brain storm 
> ideas as she spent a year and a half with them.
>>
>> Minh
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Mar 1, 2014, at 11:13 AM, "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Alyssa.
>>> My current dog is from The Seeing Eye.  He turned 2 a couple weeks 
>>> after
>> we left class, as did several other dogs in my class.
>>> We were always treated with friendly respect in class, and afterwards.
>>> TSE uses praise-and-correct methods.  I gather they are teaching 
>>> some
>> clicker use now, but mostly for targetting things.
>>> TSE does not have a graduation ceremony, which for me is a plus. A 
>>> few
>> people shook my hand and wished me well, and off I went.  More 
>> dignified than the graduation circus, IMO.
>>> TSE does not encourage direct contact between students and puppy 
>>> raisers.
>>> I thought the training was excellent.  I think they're especially 
>>> good at
>> traffic training.
>>> HTH.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alyssa"
>>> <alyssahenson95 at gmail.com>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 10:24 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Update on Sophie Girl and a new guide dog school
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello listers. I sent a message a short while back explaining that 
>>>> Sophie had to go back to training because of her scavenging. It has 
>>>> been
>> decided that Sophie and I simply aren't a good match. I've also been 
>> hearing about this problem occurring consistently with dogs from LDB.
>> So I have made the decision that it's time to switch schools. The 
>> ones I'm choosing from are guide dogs for the blind, the seeing eye, 
>> and possibly guiding eyes for the blind. I like the geographical 
>> location of all these places as they feature busy areas to work in. I 
>> also like that they all offer follow up as well. I do have some 
>> questions though. I thank you for taking the time to read and answer. So
here goes.
> What training methods are used with the dogs?
>> How effective do you feel these methods are? During your class 
>> experience, how were you treated by the trainers and administration?
>> How old are the dogs when they are issued? Thank you for reading 
>> these questions. Feel free to answer off list if y ou wish. I'll post 
>> again if any more questions come up.
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Alyssa
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
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>>>
>>>
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--
Raven

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