[nagdu] Feeding raw. Was: possibly switching dog food, advice would be welcome

Thu Mar 20 19:26:15 UTC 2014

Darla,
That would depend on the problems a senior dog is displaying. For
instance, if the dog is displaying signs of arthritis, then you would
add more natural sources of glucosamine and condroitin into the diet.
I believe these substances are found in joints, so feeding ox tails,,
whole rabbits, and chicken leg quarters might help with this. All
natural supplements, as well as herbal remedies can also be used to
relieve joint pain and inflammation. If a senior dog has issues with
liver, the kidneys, or the gi tract, that dog would need tailoring and
possible supplementing for that specific issue. Each issue is
approached from a different angle.
I'm sure Rox'E knows far more about this than I do. She's been doing
this for 15 years for a few different dogs. I've only been doing it
for nearly 6 months for just the Golden Guy.
There are several email lists for rawfeeders on Yahoo. Those people
would know far more about tailoring a raw diet for senior dogs or dogs
with specific conditions.

On 3/20/14, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Raven,
>
> 	Does the diet change for older dogs?  If so, what changes would be
> made for a raw diet for a senior dog?
> Darla & Happy Huck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 12:29 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Feeding raw. Was: possibly switching dog food, advice
> would be welcome
>
> Laurel,
> the theory behind raw is feeding your dog as mother nature intended.
> We believe that feeding raw allows for complete control over what enters
> our
> dogs' bodies, and we believe that feeding in such a way creates a all
> around
> healthy dog. This means dogs with clean teeth, fresh breath, nice-smelling,
> clean coats, healthy GI tracts, and who are naturally able to fend off
> diseases, pests, parasites, and other ailments.
> We believe that just as it is unhealthy for humans to eat some formulated
> cereal day in and day out, it is also unhealthy for our dogs. It is
> imperative that our dogs access nutrients through whole, fresh, unenhanced
> foods, just as people are able to, and therein avoid many, if not all, of
> the ailments and sicknesses that plague dogs today. Many raw feeders also
> avoid including processed foods in their own diet.
> A number of arguments discuss the relatively recent invention of kibble and
> processed foods. I think it started around the Great Depression. Correct me
> if I'm wrong. Before then, and even well after, people fed their pets other
> animals, or their dogs and cats hunted and caught their food. Also, some
> pets such as snakes and farm cats still eat other animals for their meals,
> rather than some concoction containing only God knows what.
> I posted a long message with a slew of links outlining and explaining in
> great detail the reasoning behind raw feeding. I will forward that to you,
> and I highly suggest clicking on at least a few of those links. As Barb
> said, I certainly have done my homework.
> Many of us who rawfeed have been burned by the pet industry and/or
> veterinary medicine. We put our dogs' health and lives in the hands of
> people who were supposed to disseminate correct information and have our
> dogs' best interests at heart. But we did what they prescribed or
> recommended, and our dogs have suffered greatly, and in turn, we went
> through agony because of it. We strive to avoid going through that pain, or
> putting another dog through the same suffering. We strive to rely on
> herbalism and homeopathic medicine to heal our dogs and ourselves.
> Ashley and Mark, I have the Beginners guide to feeding raw, and will
> forward
> it to you to help you get started, or gain a better understanding of raw in
> the very least. Anyone else interested in this document, whether you are
> considering or just for the sake of learning, email me off list. It is also
> a free pdf that you can download through a simple Google search.
> Essentially, Rox'E explained it perfectly. There is no formula, just fresh,
> whole animals or animal parts. There is no need for anything else. No
> veggies, fruits, dairy, or grain. If anything, those things are taxing on a
> dog's digestive system, especially the pancreas. If a dog eats only raw
> animal parts, he will receive every necessary nutrient. And here's the
> proof:
> https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-diets-for-dogs-getting-enough-vita
> mins-and-minerals/
> And if you desire more proof, check out the USDA nutrient database for
> different cuts of meat from different animals.
>
>
> On 3/20/14, Laurel and Stockard <laurel.stockard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey, what's the theory behind feeding our dogs raw. I will be the
>> first to admit, I know next to nothing about it. Why do those of you
>> that feed raw think it's better for your dog? I'd love it if NAGDU
>> could ever host a conference call about dog nutrition, how to choose
>> the proper food for your dog, what to look for etc. I think it would be
> helpful for us all.
>> Anyways, I'd love to hear more of the thought line behind you all's
>> decision to feed raw.
>> Laurel and Stockard
>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 11:21 AM, The Pawpower Pack
>> <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ashley,
>>> There isn't an exact formula.  Let me put it to you this way...  If
>>> you have a child, do you use a formula to feed her?  probably not.
>>> But you make sure she eats the important food groups for people--
>>> meat, grain, fruit and veg, and dairy.
>>> It's the same for dogs.  You want to feed about 2 to 3% of your dogs
>>> ideal body weight daily.  So example, Soleil is 50 lbs.  She's very
>>> active so I feed 3% of her bodyweight daily which is about 1.5 lbs or
>>> so.  If I notice her losing weight I feed more, if one day, she
>>> starts looking chunky, I'll feed less.
>>> I try, over say a 2 week period of time to feed her all of the things
>>> you'd find in a prey animal, so largly meat, about 15% bone, kidney,
>>> liver, other organs as about 3% or so of her diet.  I try to feed as
>>> many different kinds of meats as I can, chicken, turkey, beef, pork,
>>> duck, lamb, fish, etc.  Whatever I can get.  But it's not a set
>>> schedule.  For example, if I have to leave for work early, I will
>>> feed something quick and easy like perhaps chicken liver and a duck
>>> head and a few pieces of pork.  But if it's a day off, where there is
>>> much more time, I will feed a larger meal-- like whole chicken, or a
>>> rack
> of ribs.
>>>
>>> Rox'E and the Kitchen Bitches
>>> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
>>> "America has only three cities:  New York, San Francisco, and New
> Orleans.
>>>  Everywhere else is Cleveland." -Tennessee Williams
>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 10:09 AM, "Ashley Coleman" <amc05111 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Raven and others who feed raw.
>>>> This may have been already asked, but what raw formulas do you feed,
>>>> and where do you suggest sending someone who is highly considering
>>>> feeding their golden raw?
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Ashley,
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Raven Tolliver
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 3:39 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] possibly switching dog food, advice would be
>>>> welcome
>>>>
>>>> Kathy,
>>>> The truth of the matter is that many of the more expensive dog food
>>>> brands lack those ingredients that cause health issues in dogs, or
>>>> are just downright toxic. A dog's diet should not include msg, salt,
>>>> soy, grains, or carbohydrates of any kind. And many sources even say
>>>> that out of all the processed dog foods, kibble is the worst. Too,
>>>> many of those premium brands are still unhealthy and unnatural.
>>>> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dog-food-carbohydrate
>>>> s/ The canine is a carnivore species. Look at their dentition and
>>>> their digestive tracts. First, dogs do not have flat molars, and
>>>> dogs' lower mandibles do not move from side to side to allow for the
>>>> proper crushing and chewing of fruits and veggies. Instead their
>>>> teeth are pointed and come together in a scissors bite. This is why
>>>> it is encouraged to chop up fruits and veggies before feeding them
>>>> to a dog.
>>>> Also, if you read any diets that promote the feeding of fruits and
>>>> veggies, you will see that they encourage steaming, pureeing, or
>>>> preparing fruits and veggies in a way that breaks down the outer
>>>> layer of cellulose. Why? Because a dog does not possess the
>>>> digestive enzymes to break this down in order to obtain nutrients.
>>>> So feeding green beans or carrots does provide fiber, but those
>>>> things are just fillers and do not provide nutrients unless you
>>>> prepare it. Guess who cooked for dogs when they were out in the wild?
>>>> Furthermore, digestion for dogs starts in the stomach, not in the
>>>> mouth. This is why dogs do not chew their food so finely as we do.
>>>> Chomp, chomp, chomp, swallow. And the food is down. The stomach acid
>>>> will take care of the rest.
>>>> http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html
>>>> In addition, the cooking process destroys nutrients. If you want
>>>> proof, look at the list of ingredients for your dog food of choice.
>>>> Then answer this question: why do they have to add a gamut of
>>>> vitamins and minerals to the meats, fruits, and veggies listed?
>>>> Answer: because all the nutrients for those foods were destroyed
>>>> during the cooking process, so a vitamin premix must be sprayed on.
>>>> Oh and most of these premixes or many of their ingredients come from
> China or India.
>>>> https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-kibble-harming-dogs/
>>>> Kibble is also laden with toxic chemicals such as molds,
>>>> carcinogens, and flame retardants.
>>>> https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/kibble-never-a-good-option/
>>>> Oh, and want to know what else is in kibble? Various dead and
>>>> diseased animals, and farming/manufacturing waste.
>>>> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/shocking-tru
>>>> th-about-dog-food/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/animal-by-products/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/dog-food-grain-by-pr
>>>> oducts/
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/helpful-dog-food-articles/
>>>> Now why do many people feed raw? The better question is why don't
>>>> people feed raw? Tell me what's better than having complete control
>>>> over the ingredients in your dog's food. What's better than knowing
>>>> that your dog is eating a species appropriate diet, day in and day
>>>> out, and is reaping the benefits, cleaner teeth, fresher breath,
>>>> easier digestion, and absorbing every part of their meals as
>>>> nutrients. Raw fed dogs also have smaller, less frequent stools
>>>> because their is little waste material passing through their
>>>> digestive systems, which means the dog is consuming nutrient-rich
>>>> foods and absorbing nutrients. Healthy raw-fed dogs generally poop
>>>> once a day, some, such as the Golden Guy, even poop once every 2 days.
>>>> As for how I even switched. I used to be on the kibble train. I
>>>> didn't even know that other types of dog food existed, other than
>>>> canned food. I was lied to by the guide dog school, and told that
>>>> kibble was better than canned food because it cleans a dog's teeth.
>>>> Okay, don't even get me started.
>>>> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/dry-dog-food-cleaner
>>>> -teeth/ So I fed kibble. First, it was the anal glands. They needed
>>>> expressing every 6 weeks. I would always ask what things I could do
>>>> to minimize or eliminate the need for this. All three vets I went to
>>>> informed me that some dogs have this problem and others don't. Okay,
>>>> so what was I supposed to do?
>>>> Then, the chronic ear infections. First every other month, then none
>>>> during the winter, then a monthly infection from April to October. I
>>>> went to three different vets again, looking for the solution to my
>>>> problems. All of them kept saying well, it could be seasonal
>>>> allergies, or food allergies, or a yeast overgrowth. Okay, so I
>>>> needed to switch his food. I embarked on a search for different dog
>>>> foods on my own. Why? Because every vet I went to said Iams was a
>>>> good dog food. Anyone who claimed that did not have my dog's best
>>>> interests at heart.
>>>> So I went through some top notch dog food brands after getting off
>>>> Iams, which is what the school fed their dogs. I went from Acana, to
>>>> Canidae, to Wellness Core, and I even tried a couple different
>>>> recipes within each brand. I knew that systemic issues took time to
>>>> clear up, so I gave each formula about 3 months. But I still
>>>> researched furiously, trying to figure out what on God's green earth
>>>> was causing the ear infections and the anal gland issues! It was
>>>> driving me up the wall, and I could not imagine what the Golden Guy was
> going through.
>>>> I looked into feeding canned dog food, dehydrated, freeze-dried, and
>>>> even cooking my dog's food. It was too much. The calculating,
>>>> preparation, and work involved. I threw in the towel on process dog
>>>> food, and I have not looked back. And you know what? No ear
>>>> infections, and no more scooting or anal gland issues. I feed my dog
>>>> as nature intended, and it is easy and stress-free. I don't have to
>>>> worry about recalls, contamination, harmful chemicals in the food,
>>>> or a change in recipe. I am done playing with fire and burning my dog.
>>>> I tell this story because I want to save people from going through
>>>> what I went through. These issues are so minor, and so easily fixed.
>>>> Sometimes, it takes minor and/or major health problems to persuade
>>>> people to feed raw.
>>>> If your dog is experiencing chronic ear infections, your dog is
>>>> trying to get rid of toxins in his body. One of the primary ways to
>>>> get rid of toxins is through the skin, note things like anal gland
>>>> issues, allergies displayed through the skin and coat, and ear
> infections.
>>>> That stuff has to come out somehow. Probiotics will not help you if
>>>> you continue to put the very same toxins into your dog that your dog
>>>> is trying to get rid of. It's like solving a vitamin deficiency by
>>>> taking a multi vitamin while consuming a diet of junk food, or
>>>> unhealthy food in the least. It doesn't work. Trust me, I tried it
>>>> my sophomore year of college. Change the diet altogether. Feed your
>>>> dog a diet that promotes good gut flora, then perhaps add in
>>>> probiotics if you still feel it is necessary. Probiotics are not
>>>> necessary in a healthy dog eating a species appropriate diet.
>>>> If you want to learn more about raw vs. kibble and why raw, check
>>>> out the links below:
>>>> http://rawfed.com/myths/index.html
>>>> www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com
>>>> www.rawlearning.com
>>>> http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners.php
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/20/14, Tai Blas <taiablas at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi! My dog gets ear infections once a month. I have only had her
>>>>> three months and she has had an infection each of those months. Can
>>>>> you recommend a probiotic? C
>>>>>
>>>>> Tai Tomasi
>>>>> J.D. Candidate, class of 2014
>>>>> Email: tai.tomasi8 at gmail.com
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone. Please excuse my brevity and any grammatical
>>>>> errors.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:47 PM, Brandy Pinder <bdpinder at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am all for taste of the wild. It's grain free, on the less
>>>>>> expensive side. For some reason pinta had that smell that has
>>>>>> either subsided from switching to wellness grain free or the
>>>>>> numerous dry shampoo and wipes I have discovered.
>>>>>> Kathy I switched to quote unquote more expensive food because I
>>>>>> feel, especially for my dog who has had past ear infections, is
>>>>>> healthier over all. Dogs do not eat grain such as corn in the wild
>>>>>> and grain can cause many allergies. Also, I have found I pay the
>>>>>> same price because on foods like purina and iams I would be
>>>>>> feeding at least three cups whereas with wellness she is eating
>>>>>> two cups. I noticed when I switched my previous dog to blue
>>>>>> buffalo as opposed to euk she didn't seem hungry at all between
>>>>>> meals and didn't start asking for her dinner extremely early. The
>>>>>> quote unquote more expensive brands and especially grain free have
>>>>>> higher protein whereas the quote unquote less expensive have more
>>>>>> carbohydrates which I'm sure every one has noticed eggs keep you
>>>>>> more full in the morning as opposed to oat meal. Lastly, my main
>>>>>> reason at first is that I lived alone and though I could pick up
>>>>>> purina from my grocery store sometimes they didn't have it or I
>>>>>> went to the one closer to home which only carries small bags. When
>>>>>> I went on pet food direct and pet flow five years ago blue buffalo
>>>>>> was fifty two a bad. Purina was forty five while at the store it
>>>>>> was thirty five so I'm thinking for seven dollars more I can get a
>>>>>> much better food, however if a grocery store is convenient then
>>>>>> yes those brands would be cheaper. Raven will explain this much
>>>>>> better.
>>>>>> Smile.
>>>>>> I am in no way saying that a person who feeds the less expensive
>>>>>> brands are bad. Do I think my dog will live longer eating a grain
>>>>>> free food?
>>>>>> Not
>>>>>> really. Do I think anyone feeding iams is bad? No of course not.
>>>>>> This just works for me and I can't deny the fact that my school
>>>>>> let me know she had had numerous ear infections and was I ok with
>>>>>> that and when I brought her home she had one, in the last seven
>>>>>> months nothing. I strongly feel it is the grain free food and the
>>>>>> probiotics
>>>>>>
>>>>>> brandy pinder
>>>>>> Alumni Council -  second vice Chairman Guide Dog Foundation for
>>>>>> the Blind, Inc(R) and America's VetDogs(R), The Veteran's K-9
>>>>>> Corps Inc(R) Providing "Second uSight"(R) since 1946
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 371 E. Jericho Turnpike smith town ny 11766
>>>>>> Cso: 866-282-8047
>>>>>> Email: brandydp at verizon.net
>>>>>> Cell: 304-685-4499
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 10:42 PM, "Kathy Davis"
>>>>>>> <kdavisnfbf at cfl.rr.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>> This is Kathy Davis and I am new to the NAGDU list. I have
>>>>>>> received all 5 of my dogs from The Seeing Eye. I now have a
>>>>>>> handsome Black male Lab by the name of Wade who will be three in
>>>>>>> mid July.
>>>>>>> I have had wonderful luck with Purina Pro Plan after feeding my
>>>>>>> previous guides Neutro. Wade does great on this food and I
>>>>>>> wouldn't even consider changing. It is a reasonable cost and is
>>>>>>> carried by Pet Supermarket, Petmart and no doubt on line as well.
>>>>>>> I am wondering why so many of you are choosing to use some of the
>>>>>>> more expensive brands of food and why others are opting to feed
>>>>>>> raw.
>>>>>>> You have some interesting discussions and I think I'll enjoy the
>>>>>>> list. By the way, I should tell you that I am a board member of
>>>>>>> FLAGDU and have been very active in the NFB of Florida for many
>>>>>>> years. I reside in Ormond Beach just north of Daytona Beach.
>>>>>>> I'm looking forward to getting to know some of you better with
>>>>>>> time and I'm happy to put in my two cents worth when the topic at
>>>>>>> hand could possibly benefit from my input.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kathy and Wade the wonderful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> Vivianna
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 6:10 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] possibly switching dog food, advice would be
>>>>>>> welcome
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>> Try this website;
>>>>>>> www.chewie.com
>>>>>>> they have loads of dog foods to look through with lists of
>>>>>>> ingredients.
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you ring them up they will give you advice and, top that off with
>>>>>>> free delivery.
>>>>>>> i personally am using Taste of the Wild in the mornings and
>>>>>>> feeding raw in the evenings.  i am switching to a RMB diet
>>>>>>> completely.
>>>>>>> but, that's not for everyone, i am aware of that.
>>>>>>> HTH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vivianna
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2014, at 4:54 PM, Laurel and Stockard
>>>>>>> <laurel.stockard at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>>> I don't post much, but occasionally, I need advice. I've got my
>>>>>>>> guide, a
>>>>>>> female labrador in great health, on natural balance duck and
>>>>>>> potato along with my family's pet labrador, also in great health.
>>>>>>> My guide is 5 and a half and our pet is a little over 2. I've got
>>>>>>> to switch Stockard my guide as well as our pet dog off the
>>>>>>> natural balance because it's running 60 dollars a bag of late and
>>>>>>> I can't really afford that. I'd like to know what brands you use,
>>>>>>> and what you find affordable, like under $50. Keep in mind, my
>>>>>>> dogs are labradors. Specifically, I want your thoughts on a few
>>>>>>> brands.
>>>>>>> Eukanuba
>>>>>>> (especially whether or not I should think about large breed vs.
>>>>>>> labrador.
>>>>>>> Is
>>>>>>> one better than the other, does it matter?) also, royal canin,
>>>>>>> nutro, Kirkland from Costco, and Iams. Is there another brand
>>>>>>> that's affordable that I should consider? Are there any websites
>>>>>>> where I could order in bulk, say 5 or 10 bags at a time, and save
>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your thoughts on this matter.
>>>>>>>> Laurel and Stockard
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>
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Raven