[nagdu] On Ownership

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Fri May 2 20:25:41 UTC 2014


Raven, I have seen that as well! I've seen folks who couldn't find there way 
out of a paper bag not only getting threw but recieving there dogs!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Raven Tolliver" <ravend729 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership


> Here's the excuse for the piss-poor ownership policies. A lot of
> schools will just accept almost anyone to come and train to use a dog.
> This is sad but true. After entering the world of guide dog travelers,
> I have seen people get accepted to different schools, and wonder how
> on God's green earth those people were deemed promising guide dog
> travelers. This is not because they seemed like they would be abusive,
> but because they had unbelievably poor O&M skills, because they
> encouraged and allowed their dogs to do inappropriate behaviors,
> because they were careless and neglectful right off the bat,, and so
> on. Also, schools match people with dogs and send them home with that
> dog, knowing at the end of the first week that the team is not a good
> match by any stretch. People are matched with dogs that are too slow,
> too fast, too high-strung, highly distracted, you name it. These
> schools want to give people or the dogs the benefit of the doubt, and
> end up sending these people home with dogs, then going out to get the
> dogs 1, 3, or 6 months later.
> What needs to happen is that every school grant ownership upon
> graduation, and change their application processes.
> Also, I will admit I don't approve of the ownership policy of the
> program I attended. However, I was not willing to sacrifice my other
> criteria for a school and a dog just to have ownership. There are
> schools that give ownership upon graduation, and at the same time use
> practices that I eschew, or they don't meet my personal requirements.
> Obviously, ownership was less important to me than the other things I
> wanted in both a school and a dog.
>
>
> On 5/2/14, Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>> Do any of the programs do criminal background checks?  What about the
>> references?  Is a reference letter submitted or are these people called 
>> and
>>
>> asked questions?
>>
>> I feel that the programs should use whatever means necessary to assess 
>> the
>> suitability of a particular person to have a dog and then let them have 
>> the
>>
>> dog.  If there is some concern that the person won't properly take care 
>> of
>> the dog, then that person shouldn't get one.  Once the person has the 
>> dog,
>> it's too late to prevent abuse or neglect.   Ownership or no ownership 
>> isn't
>>
>> going to change the condition of the dog.
>>
>> The only way that ownership can influence how people act toward their dog 
>> is
>>
>> if it's used as a threat.  If you don't do what we say, then we'll 
>> repossess
>>
>> your dog.  the thing with this approach is that it only works on folks 
>> who
>> would have taken proper care of the dog regardless of the ownership 
>> policy.
>>
>> People who do bad things are going to do bad things regardless of the 
>> rules.
>>
>> An ownership policy isn't going to prevent abuse, any more than domestic
>> abuse laws stop spouses from hitting each other.    People who don't 
>> commit
>>
>> abuse don't do it because of a law, they are non abusers because they 
>> feel
>> it's the right way to act.
>>
>> I'd really like to know what the actual reason is for the various schools
>> ownership policies.  I've heard obesity, abuse, better follow up, being 
>> able
>>
>> to place the dog after retirement, better service and all other manner of
>> nonsense.  It doesn't make any sense to me.  How does the ownership 
>> policy
>> affect the school's ability to provide good service?  It smells like an
>> excuse to me.
>>
>> It would be interesting to see solid statistics comparing things like
>> obesity rates, abuse, time between a follow up request and the provision 
>> of
>>
>> service and overall success rates between programs that retain ownership 
>> and
>>
>> those that don't.  My hunch is that there is no correlation between
>> ownership and these items.  I think the better indicator is the quality 
>> of
>> the applicant screening process, and the quality of the training at the
>> program
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Raven
>
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