[nagdu] On Ownership

Larry D. Keeler lkeeler at comcast.net
Sat May 3 03:01:21 UTC 2014


Yes, and, if control is the issue then this would give those schools even 
mor reasons to try and pull somethinjng! Not that all of them would but the 
opportunity would certainly exist!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CindyRay" <cindyray at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership


> It just feels to me like if we start talking criminal background checks 
> and then financial checks that it starts to go rather far afield and gets 
> people to fretting about things that just aren't necessary. I thik I need 
> to stop on the topic here.
> Cindy Lou
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 2, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was only suggesting that a criminal background check is not the only 
>> check worth doing
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 2, 2014, at 6:36 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m kind of confused about criminal checks leading to financial ones. 
>>> Maybe it is because I didn’t read Rebecca’s message?
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But then how far would those financial checks go?  Even though Jenny is 
>>>> my responsibility, I am married to someone who historically has had 
>>>> credit problems.  Would a guide dog school checking in to my financial 
>>>> background also breach his confidentiality and deny me the chance to 
>>>> train with a dog because of it?  Does that seem fair?
>>>>
>>>> Daryl and Jenny (who is a little on edge today)
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Fri, 02 May 2014 13:47:33 -0600 (MDT)
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>
>>>>   Criminal background checks only "get" people who have found heir way
>>>> into the criminal justice system. Many many people commit crimes and 
>>>> are not
>>>> caught. And, an arrest means absolutely nothing.
>>>> I wonder if the schools also do finantial background checks as 
>>>> finantial
>>>> stress can make people act in ways they normally wouldn't. Not to say 
>>>> that a
>>>> person under finantial stress would or wouldn't abuse a dog, just that
>>>> criminal background checks aren't the only background checks in town, 
>>>> and
>>>> may not give a full picture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 1:49 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>
>>>> Do any of the programs do criminal background checks?  What about the
>>>> references?  Is a reference letter submitted or are these people called 
>>>> and
>>>> asked questions?
>>>>
>>>> I feel that the programs should use whatever means necessary to assess 
>>>> the
>>>> suitability of a particular person to have a dog and then let them have 
>>>> the
>>>> dog.  If there is some concern that the person won't properly take care 
>>>> of
>>>> the dog, then that person shouldn't get one.  Once the person has the 
>>>> dog,
>>>> it's too late to prevent abuse or neglect.   Ownership or no ownership 
>>>> isn't
>>>>
>>>> going to change the condition of the dog.
>>>>
>>>> The only way that ownership can influence how people act toward their 
>>>> dog is
>>>> if it's used as a threat.  If you don't do what we say, then we'll 
>>>> repossess
>>>> your dog.  the thing with this approach is that it only works on folks 
>>>> who
>>>> would have taken proper care of the dog regardless of the ownership 
>>>> policy.
>>>> People who do bad things are going to do bad things regardless of the 
>>>> rules.
>>>>
>>>> An ownership policy isn't going to prevent abuse, any more than 
>>>> domestic
>>>> abuse laws stop spouses from hitting each other.    People who don't 
>>>> commit
>>>> abuse don't do it because of a law, they are non abusers because they 
>>>> feel
>>>> it's the right way to act.
>>>>
>>>> I'd really like to know what the actual reason is for the various 
>>>> schools
>>>> ownership policies.  I've heard obesity, abuse, better follow up, being 
>>>> able
>>>> to place the dog after retirement, better service and all other manner 
>>>> of
>>>> nonsense.  It doesn't make any sense to me.  How does the ownership 
>>>> policy
>>>> affect the school's ability to provide good service?  It smells like an
>>>> excuse to me.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to see solid statistics comparing things like
>>>> obesity rates, abuse, time between a follow up request and the 
>>>> provision of
>>>> service and overall success rates between programs that retain 
>>>> ownership and
>>>> those that don't.  My hunch is that there is no correlation between
>>>> ownership and these items.  I think the better indicator is the quality 
>>>> of
>>>> the applicant screening process, and the quality of the training at the
>>>> program
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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