[nagdu] On Ownership
Chantel
jawsgirl87 at gmail.com
Sat May 3 21:01:40 UTC 2014
I agree with you, Cindy. Kicking a dog to death in a drunken rage isn't right. I wouldn't give this man another dog, even if he begged and pleaded with me to do so.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 3, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, I would not give such a person another dog whether I was a school that gave ownership or not, at least not for a period of time. If I was a breeder selling dogs to people and someone did that to one of my dogs, and then said person came to me wanting another dog, I would not sell him another dog, and blindness wouldn’t have anything to do with it. Anger management classes would not be the only kind of classes I would want him to do.
>
> Cindy Lou
>
>> On May 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Marion,
>> ]
>> I don't believe I am, as this information can be used as well as misused.
>> Let me take, for example, the man who kicked his dog to death and had a felo0ny charge, I believe. Now he can't remain hidden because of the net, but what if he got sober and took anger management classes and psychotherapy; should those reports be enough?
>> If he has done these things, he is probably beating himself up every day for what he did to his dog in a drunken rage.
>> Darla & Happy Huck
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 6:28 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>
>> I would also assert that a criminal background check should not be the only information used to arrive at a decision. The information gleaned should be used in perspective and other mitigating or aggravating information should be considered. I don't know if I am in favor of background checks of any kind.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:53 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>
>> I was only suggesting that a criminal background check is not the only check worth doing
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On May 2, 2014, at 6:36 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m kind of confused about criminal checks leading to financial ones. Maybe it is because I didn’t read Rebecca’s message?
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But then how far would those financial checks go? Even though Jenny is my responsibility, I am married to someone who historically has had credit problems. Would a guide dog school checking in to my financial background also breach his confidentiality and deny me the chance to train with a dog because of it? Does that seem fair?
>>>>
>>>> Daryl and Jenny (who is a little on edge today)
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Fri, 02 May 2014 13:47:33 -0600 (MDT)
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>
>>>> Criminal background checks only "get" people who have found heir
>>>> way into the criminal justice system. Many many people commit crimes
>>>> and are not caught. And, an arrest means absolutely nothing.
>>>> I wonder if the schools also do finantial background checks as
>>>> finantial stress can make people act in ways they normally wouldn't.
>>>> Not to say that a person under finantial stress would or wouldn't
>>>> abuse a dog, just that criminal background checks aren't the only
>>>> background checks in town, and may not give a full picture.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 1:49 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>
>>>> Do any of the programs do criminal background checks? What about the
>>>> references? Is a reference letter submitted or are these people
>>>> called and asked questions?
>>>>
>>>> I feel that the programs should use whatever means necessary to
>>>> assess the suitability of a particular person to have a dog and then
>>>> let them have the dog. If there is some concern that the person
>>>> won't properly take care of the dog, then that person shouldn't get one. Once the person has the dog,
>>>> it's too late to prevent abuse or neglect. Ownership or no ownership isn't
>>>>
>>>> going to change the condition of the dog.
>>>>
>>>> The only way that ownership can influence how people act toward their
>>>> dog is if it's used as a threat. If you don't do what we say, then
>>>> we'll repossess your dog. the thing with this approach is that it
>>>> only works on folks who would have taken proper care of the dog regardless of the ownership policy.
>>>> People who do bad things are going to do bad things regardless of the rules.
>>>>
>>>> An ownership policy isn't going to prevent abuse, any more than domestic
>>>> abuse laws stop spouses from hitting each other. People who don't commit
>>>> abuse don't do it because of a law, they are non abusers because they
>>>> feel it's the right way to act.
>>>>
>>>> I'd really like to know what the actual reason is for the various
>>>> schools ownership policies. I've heard obesity, abuse, better follow
>>>> up, being able to place the dog after retirement, better service and
>>>> all other manner of nonsense. It doesn't make any sense to me. How
>>>> does the ownership policy affect the school's ability to provide good
>>>> service? It smells like an excuse to me.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to see solid statistics comparing things like
>>>> obesity rates, abuse, time between a follow up request and the
>>>> provision of service and overall success rates between programs that
>>>> retain ownership and those that don't. My hunch is that there is no
>>>> correlation between ownership and these items. I think the better
>>>> indicator is the quality of the applicant screening process, and the
>>>> quality of the training at the program
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
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