[nagdu] On Ownership

Marion Gwizdala blind411 at verizon.net
Sun May 4 00:21:32 UTC 2014


Craig Miller was a mayoral candidate; however, I do not believe he was elected.

Marion




-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 5:49 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership

I think the guy that did this was town mayor at one point. No joke. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 3, 2014, at 5:01 PM, Chantel <jawsgirl87 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with you, Cindy. Kicking a dog to death in a drunken rage isn't right. I wouldn't give this man another dog, even if he begged and pleaded with me to do so.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 3, 2014, at 4:58 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Well, I would not give such a person another dog whether I was a school that gave ownership or not, at least not for a period of time. If I was a breeder selling dogs to people and someone did that to one of my dogs, and then said person came to me wanting another dog, I would not sell him another dog, and blindness wouldn’t have anything to do with it. Anger management classes would not be the only kind of classes I would want him to do. 
>> 
>> Cindy Lou
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2014, at 2:49 PM, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Marion,
>>> ]
>>>   I don't believe I am, as this information can be used as well as misused.
>>>   Let me take, for example, the man who kicked his dog to death and had a felo0ny charge, I believe. Now he can't remain hidden because of the net, but what if he got sober and took anger management classes and psychotherapy; should those reports be enough?
>>>   If he has done these things, he is probably beating himself up every day for what he did to his dog in a drunken rage.
>>> Darla & Happy Huck
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marion 
>>> Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 6:28 AM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>> 
>>>   I would also assert that a criminal background check should not be the only information used to arrive at a decision. The information gleaned should be used in perspective and other mitigating or aggravating information should be considered. I don't know if I am in favor of background checks of any kind. 
>>> 
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star 
>>> Gazer
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:53 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>> 
>>> I was only suggesting that a criminal background check is not the 
>>> only check worth doing
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On May 2, 2014, at 6:36 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I’m kind of confused about criminal checks leading to financial ones. Maybe it is because I didn’t read Rebecca’s message?
>>>> 
>>>> Cindy
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 2, 2014, at 3:02 PM, Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> But then how far would those financial checks go?  Even though Jenny is my responsibility, I am married to someone who historically has had credit problems.  Would a guide dog school checking in to my financial background also breach his confidentiality and deny me the chance to train with a dog because of it?  Does that seem fair?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Daryl and Jenny (who is a little on edge today)
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, 02 May 2014 13:47:33 -0600 (MDT)
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>> 
>>>>> Criminal background checks only "get" people who have found heir 
>>>>> way into the criminal justice system. Many many people commit 
>>>>> crimes and are not caught. And, an arrest means absolutely nothing.
>>>>> I wonder if the schools also do finantial background checks as 
>>>>> finantial stress can make people act in ways they normally wouldn't.
>>>>> Not to say that a person under finantial stress would or wouldn't 
>>>>> abuse a dog, just that criminal background checks aren't the only 
>>>>> background checks in town, and may not give a full picture.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 1:49 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do any of the programs do criminal background checks?  What about 
>>>>> the references?  Is a reference letter submitted or are these 
>>>>> people called and asked questions?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I feel that the programs should use whatever means necessary to 
>>>>> assess the suitability of a particular person to have a dog and 
>>>>> then let them have the dog.  If there is some concern that the 
>>>>> person won't properly take care of the dog, then that person shouldn't get one.  Once the person has the dog,
>>>>> it's too late to prevent abuse or neglect.   Ownership or no ownership isn't
>>>>> 
>>>>> going to change the condition of the dog.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The only way that ownership can influence how people act toward 
>>>>> their dog is if it's used as a threat.  If you don't do what we 
>>>>> say, then we'll repossess your dog.  the thing with this approach 
>>>>> is that it only works on folks who would have taken proper care of the dog regardless of the ownership policy.
>>>>> People who do bad things are going to do bad things regardless of the rules.
>>>>> 
>>>>> An ownership policy isn't going to prevent abuse, any more than domestic 
>>>>> abuse laws stop spouses from hitting each other.    People who don't commit 
>>>>> abuse don't do it because of a law, they are non abusers because 
>>>>> they feel it's the right way to act.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'd really like to know what the actual reason is for the various 
>>>>> schools ownership policies.  I've heard obesity, abuse, better 
>>>>> follow up, being able to place the dog after retirement, better 
>>>>> service and all other manner of nonsense.  It doesn't make any 
>>>>> sense to me.  How does the ownership policy affect the school's 
>>>>> ability to provide good service?  It smells like an excuse to me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It would be interesting to see solid statistics comparing things 
>>>>> like obesity rates, abuse, time between a follow up request and 
>>>>> the provision of service and overall success rates between 
>>>>> programs that retain ownership and those that don't.  My hunch is 
>>>>> that there is no correlation between ownership and these items.  I 
>>>>> think the better indicator is the quality of the applicant 
>>>>> screening process, and the quality of the training at the program
>>>>> 
>>>>> Julie
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>> 
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