[nagdu] "consumer"
Marsha Drenth
marsha.drenth at gmail.com
Mon May 5 01:18:02 UTC 2014
This is a on going debate. Its because we all read the defination to consumer to be one way, and others read it as some way else. This debate is over how we percieve the word. can we please agree to disagree? Use what ever words you are most comfortable with, but because I use consumer, that is my choice. Personally I don't care, I am a consumer, a client, a reciever, a user, and a million other words that mean the same thing.
Marsha drenth
Sent with my IPhone
Please note that this email communication has been sent using my iPhone. As such, I may have used dictation and had made attempts to mitigate errors. Please do not be hesitant to ask for clarification as necessary.
> On May 4, 2014, at 8:46 PM, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am struggling to understand what this debate about consumer really has to do with dog and ownership, or guide dogs at all. We use services; therefore, we consume them. I think our main concern maybe should be that they are good and fair services.
>
> CL
>
>> On May 4, 2014, at 7:18 PM, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just because something is accepted does not mean that it is right or that we
>> have to use it. I don't like human resources, either. I don't like consumer
>> because the meaning is different from what one would assume based on the
>> spelling and the definition of consume. And then we wonder why people who
>> don't speak English have such a hard time learning it.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sherry Gomes
>> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 6:20 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] "consumer"
>>
>> consumer is a business word, used all the time in non blindness, non guide
>> dog, non disability environment. I didn't like the term human resources when
>> it started being used instead of words like personnel. I thought it seemed
>> like being equated with water and power. but it's the accepted term in the
>> business world for now. and so is consumer. I guess it confuses me that it
>> upsets people but that's because it's everywhere and a very common main
>> stream expression.
>>
>> Sherry
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 6:10 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] "consumer"
>>
>> I agree with the person who posted the consumer definition. I loathe being
>> called a consumer, as I've said before. Last time this came up, Marion, you
>>
>> agreed to use a different term. Customer? Client? But here you are again,
>> calling us consumers.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 7:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>
>>
>>> This message is obviously meant to advance a specific point of view.
>>> As such, it does not present the whole meaning nor, I would say, the
>>> proper
>>> meaning of the word consumer. The problem with the definition is the
>>> manner
>>> in which the information is gleaned. The term is not "consume" the term is
>>> "consumer". The other problem lies in the specific use of the term. The
>>> term
>>> consumer, when used in the field of economics has a specific meaning: a
>>> person or organization that uses a commodity or service. A consumer does
>>> not
>>> consume in the manner this writer puts forth. Furthermore, the writer has
>>> only brought forth the information that supports one position. This is
>>> understandable, as it is meant to support one position and does not
>>> account
>>> for an alternative proposition. I am open to other points of view, but the
>>> information and the arguments must be relevant and rational. No one is
>>> asserting we are consumers because we eat our dogs; We are consumers
>>> because
>>> we are people that use a commodity or service.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of KARL 8422
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 8:24 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>
>>> Yeah, let's look at the whole root of the word "consumer", shall we?
>>> con·sume
>>> [kuhn-soom] Show IPA
>>> verb (used with object), con·sumed, con·sum·ing.
>>> 1.to destroy or expend by use; use up.
>>> 2.to eat or drink up; devour.
>>> 3.to destroy, as by decomposition or burning: Fire consumed the forest.
>>> 4.to spend (money, time, etc.) wastefully.
>>> 5.to absorb; engross: consumed with curiosity.
>>> verb (used without object), con·sumed, con·sum·ing.
>>> 6.to undergo destruction; waste away.
>>> 7.to use or use up consumer goods.
>>> Origin:
>>> 1350–1400; Middle English (< Middle French consumer ) < Latin consūmere,
>>> equivalent to con- con- + sūmere to take up (perhaps < *suzm- < *subzm-
>>> <
>>> *subs- ( e ) m-, equivalent to subs-, variant of sub- sub- + emere to
>>> take, buy)
>>>
>>> Synonyms
>>> 1. exhaust, deplete. 4. squander, dissipate.
>>>
>>> I will never, EVER consider myself a "consumer" and I think it's horrible
>>> and tragic that such a nomenclature is being actively touted embraced by
>>> such an august organisation. I am not product, I am not data and I am not
>>> simply one who takes. The very act of consumption involves taking without
>>> balanced return. Disgusting and abhorrent.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 12:03 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>
>>> Craig, One paradigm I think we need to shift is that the training program
>>> is
>>> giving us something for nothing. Training programs solicit funds from the
>>> general public as 501(c)(3) corporations. As such, they are accountable to
>>> the public. Donors contribute to training programs because this is a way
>>> they can better the lives of those they wish to help, since they have no
>>> direct ability to do so otherwise. In short, the training programs receive
>>> contributions from the public with the expressed intention of using those
>>> funds to enhance our lives. If it were not for the blind and their
>>> assertions they are helping us, where would the 6-figure salaries of the
>>> CEOs and the less significant salaries of the staff come from?
>>>
>>> As it true with any economy except that of a guide dog training
>>> program and some other disabvility services, consumers satisfaction is the
>>> driving force. Until we see ourselves as consumers with all the power that
>>> term conveys, we will continue to be treated as second-class citizens.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Heaps
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:24 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>
>>> Michael:
>>>
>>> I understand the points you're making, and certainly don't think it's
>>> simply
>>> one way or the other.
>>>
>>> However, when the school accepted me, I also accpted the school. I went
>>> to
>>> GDB knowing the ownership policy. I took all the things they gave me for
>>> free, knowing it came with the stiuplation that I would not own the dog
>>> for
>>> at least a year, if ever.
>>>
>>> I don't know of another situation other than service dogs where someone
>>> hands over to you a highly trained, living, breathing being for your
>>> benefit
>>> at no charge. Then regularly comes to provide extended instruction and
>>> guidance at my home or work place. I find it hard to complain about the
>>> conditions they put on that.
>>>
>>> I believe the schools have every right to withhold ownership of the dogs
>>> for
>>> however long they choose. I do not expect them to be infallible in their
>>> screening or training. And if they feel they need to retain ownership for
>>
>>> a
>>> time as a check on thier own fallibility, I'm ok with that.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I'm less sensitive to perceived paternalism. My sense of
>>> gratitude
>>> might have overwhelmed it.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 9:09 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>
>>>
>>>> Craig,
>>>>
>>>> I hear you, but the school did accept you and you accepted the school
>>>> and its techniques. You take a chance that all the processes and
>>>> procedures of the school will work for you. There is no guarantee in
>>>> life. We should be judged by the same criteria as others.
>>>>
>>>> The Leader Dog example is as graphic as it gets. The claim is, they
>>>> said, that they changed their policy simply because school management
>>>> said it saw an increase in dog obesity. So why does such an increase
>>>> justify how they treat dog ownership by the handler? The fact is that
>>>> it does not.
>>>>
>>>> The schools always have recourse to remove a mistreated dog from an
>>>> environment. Animal control, the courts, and the law should apply
>>>> here just as in any other case. Why should schools have an advantage
>>>> and an extra opportunity to intimidate? Schools have misused a lack
>>>> of ownership by handlers to intimidate them make no mistake.
>>>>
>>>> No, not granting immediate ownership is paternalistic. If the schools
>>>> train properly, if they do a thorough job of assessing the incoming
>>>> student and later the team performance during training, and if the
>>>> school personnel is confident in its own abilities to evaluate and if
>>>> the staff has faith in blind people then granting ownership
>>>> immediately is a no brainer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael Hingson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Craig Heaps
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 08:49 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>
>>>> I confess I see it differently. The guide dogs schools have invested
>>>> tens of thousands of dollars into breeding and training the dogs. I
>>>> don't know how the others work, but GDB provided free room and board
>>>> for two weeks to me, trained me for free, and provided my dog for free
>>>> for my use when I graduated. So, while I have an obviours stake in
>>>> the dog and my relationship with him (or her), the school has an
>>>> incredible responsibility for the dog.
>>>>
>>>> They accepted me on the basis of an applicaton and a home interview.
>>>> While
>>>> I'm sure they did their due diligence, there's no way they could know
>>>> my ultimate success or failure wiht a dog in that process plus the two
>>>> weeks I spent with them for training. If I should prove to be any one
>>>> of a number of things -- incompetent, negligent, cruel, psychotic,
>>>> neurotic, probiotic (sorry, I got caught up in the rythm of the thing)
>>>> -- what recourse would they have to rescue the dog from me?
>>>>
>>>> GDB allows me to apply for owership after a year. I'm a couple months
>>>> away from that anniversary and I don't know what I'll do. It really
>>>> makes no difference to me. I'm holding Chase's harness handle every
>>>> day. I buy his food and feed him. I buy the plastic bags and pick up
>>>> after him. He sleeps next to my bed. In real, practical terms, I
>>>> don't see what difference it makes.
>>>>
>>>> I tend to think of it as responsible rather than paternalistic on the
>>>> part of the school.
>>>>
>>>> Craig and Chase (who technically belongs to Guide Dogs for the Blind)
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 6:31 AM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] On Ownership
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It is my opinion that the failure to grant ownership upon completion
>>>>> of training is founded in the underlying belief that blind people are
>>>>> incapable of caring for a dog and must prove their ability to do so
>>>>> before they are afforded this fundamental right! No matter how it is
>>>>> couched, such a policy is paternalistic!
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 9:30 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Attention: New Leader Dog Ownership Policy
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, it does have to do with ownership policy. The implemented it
>>>>> because guide dogs were obese; they lowered it because blind
>>>>> graduates were starting to do better because the obesity rate is
>>>>> down. Do you think the obesity rate in dogs should have anything to
>>>>> do with ownership? What I was saying is, if you have to wait one
>>>>> minute for that reason, then it seems you are being treated as if you
>>>>> are not capable of good judgment. My point was that people with pets
>>>>> don't have to wait a year or two to see if their dogs are going to be
>>>>> obese or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 1, 2014, at 7:37 PM, Nicole Torcolini
>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I don't think that ownership is the way to solve the problem,
>>>>>> but, if you looked at the average life expectancy of the breeds
>>>>>> that are used as guide/service dogs for pet versus service/guide
>>>>>> dog, you would probably find that, between a higher level of
>>>>>> physical activity, more attention to weight, and more attention to
>>>>>> health in general, service/guide dogs live longer than pets. And
>>>>>> yes, being obese is bad for the health of a dog. Obesity is a
>>>>>> slightly different problem in dogs than in humans. Humans know that
>>>>>> we are going to get our next meal. Even though dogs have been
>>>>>> domesticated for a long time, they still go on the instinct that
>>>>>> they don't know when their next meal will be and therefore eat
>>>>>> anything you put in front of them to the point of even making
>>>>>> themselves sick. But, back to my original point, no,
>>>>> this is not something that has anything to do with an ownership policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 5:23 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Attention: New Leader Dog Ownership Policy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think about it. How many pet dogs are obese? You must know that lots
>>>>>> of them are because people over feed the dogs-table scraps, ice
>>>>>> cream, whipped cream, whatever. So I ask you, how many pet dogs are
>>> obese?
>>>>>> Probably they suffer the same problem as people. Many of us are over
>>>>>> fed,
>>>>> too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 1, 2014, at 7:12 PM, Nicole Torcolini
>>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't quite understand what you meant. Are you saying that a lot
>>>>>>> of pet dogs are obese or not many are obese?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy
>>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:16 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: Attention: New Leader Dog Ownership Policy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think this is laughable. How many pet dogs are obese? Isn't it as
>>>>>>> unhealthy for them? Their owners aren't required to wait two years
>>>>>>> before applying for ownership of the dog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy Lou
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 4:06 PM, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear All,
>>>>>>>> I would like to comment on this message as president of the
>>>>>>>> National
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Association of Guide Dog Users. As this message states, Leader
>>>>>>>> Dogs for the Blind changed its ownership policy around April of
>>>>>>>> 2007. In July of that year, I presided at my first NAGDU annual
>>>>>>>> meeting as Vice President of the organization. During our
>>>>>>>> meetings, Leader was provided an opportunity to share an update
>>>>>>>> with our membership, as has been our custom for quite some time.
>>>>>>>> One of the pieces of information Leader failed to mention was
>>>>>>>> their change in ownership policy. In August of 2007, I called
>>>>>>>> Leader and spoke with Rod Haneline about this apparent oversight.
>>>>>>>> At that time, Mr. Haneline advised me that the change in ownership
>>>>>>>> policy was in response to the negative attention the case of Craig
>>>>>>>> Miller who kicked his Leader Dog, Inky to death in a drunken rage
>>>>>>>> had garnered. There are a number of challenges to this
>>>>>>>> explanation. One major challenge is that, at the time of the
>>>>>>>> incident, Mr. Miller had had his dog for more than the two years
>>>>>>>> the new ownership policy provided for. The other major challenge
>>>>>>>> is that there is no way to predict such behavior and no
>>>>>>>> restriction of ownership would
>>>>>>> have made a difference.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> During last year's meeting, the question about their ownership
>>>>>>> policy
>>>>>>>> was posed to Leader again and this was when the issue of obesity
>>>>>>>> was brought up. Though this sound like a reasonable explanation,
>>>>>>>> no objective evidence that an obesity problem exists has ever been
>>>>>>>> offered. Now the policy has been changed to one year because the
>>>>>>>> obesity rates have gone down. Still, no objective evidence has
>>>>>>>> been offered that there is a problem, in spite of the assertion
>>>>>>>> that the rates are lower. Though I would like to believe those who
>>>>>>>> tender such an argument have evidence to support their argument,
>>>>>>>> as a professional who relies upon research to guide my practice,I
>>>>>>>> am trained to be skeptical of unsupported claims. As of yet, I
>>>>>>>> have seen no evidence of an obesity problem among guide dogs. If
>>>>>>>> there was a problem and now the problem is less, let us see the
>>>>>>>> pre- post-study evidence! While we are at it, let's also see a
>>>>>>>> correlative study of those programs who transfer ownership and
>>>>>>>> those who do not so we can ascertain if there is a difference
>>>>>>>> between the two groups. Here is an interesting statistic I would
>>>>>>>> like to share with you to drive home the point: 87% of all
>>>>>>>> statistics are made up on the spot! Of course, that's a cynical
>>>>>>> statement, but I think you get the point!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>>>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>>>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>> (813) 626-2789
>>>>>>>> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>>>>>>>> President at nagdu.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nagdu.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William
>>>>>>>> Vandervest
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:56 AM
>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fw: Attention: New Leader Dog Ownership Policy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are none so blind as those who will not see
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> William and LD Lynard
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Leader Dogs for the Blind
>>>>>>>> To: timelord09 at att.net
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:31 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Attention: New Leader Dog Ownership Policy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Graduate,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Leader Dogs for the Blind is announcing that effective
>>>>>>>> immediately we are reducing our transfer of ownership policy from
>>>>>>>> two years to one year
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> our guide dog clients (with the exception of clients from Spain
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Brazil,
>>>>>>>> who follow their local organization's procedures).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The previous policy that required clients to apply for
>>>>>>>> ownership
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> working with their dog for two years was put in place in 2007 to
>>>>>>>> address
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> growing number of working Leader Dogs who were overweight or obese.
>>>>>>>> "The reason for the change is that over the past seven years, this
>>>>>>>> problem has diminished as our clients have become more proactive
>>>>>>>> at regulating their dogs' weight," said Will Henry, Leader Dog
>>>>>>>> director of
>>>>>> client services.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The new policy grants automatic ownership, without the need to
>>>>>>>> apply, to clients one year after their graduation date if they are
>>>>>>>> in good
>>>>>>> standing
>>>>>>>> (not on probation, and with no complaints on file).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Current clients (in good standing) who have had their Leader
>>>>>>>> Dog longer than one year will receive automatic ownership as of
>>>>>>>> May 1, 2014.
>>>>>>>> Clients (in good standing) who received their Leader Dog after May
>>>>>>>> 1,
>>>>>>>> 2013 will receive automatic ownership one year after their
>>>>>>>> graduation
>>>>>> date.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have questions about the ownership of your Leader Dog,
>>>>>>>> please contact your client services coordinator at 888-777-5332.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> Leader Dogs for the Blind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you have shared your email
>>>>>>>> address with Leader Dogs for the Blind. To ensure that you
>>>>>>>> continue receiving our emails, please add us to your address book
>>>>>>>> or
>>> safe list.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Policy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Leader Dogs for the Blind, 1039 S. Rochester Rd., Rochester Hills,
>>>>>>>> MI
>>>>>>> 48307
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Leader Dogs for the Blind | 1039 S. Rochester Rd. |
>>>>>>>> Rochester Hills | MI | 48309
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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