[nagdu] guide dog school problem

Raven Tolliver via nagdu nagdu at nfbnet.org
Fri May 16 14:25:22 UTC 2014


I will never have children, but I have the experience of helping raise
6 of them. I am a dog training assistant, so I've trained with a
number of dogs. A trained adult dog is easier than a child, hands
down.
I could never offer or argue the account of comparing working with a
dog to raising up a newborn. But I will say that people are going to
judge no matter what you do, whether your rearing, disciplining, or
providing medical care for a child or a dog. It is easy for everyone
to compliment, comment, and criticize from the outside. There is more
acceptance with the newborn because everyone can easily relate to it.
The experience of rearing or helping raise a child is universal,
meaning just about everyone directly participates in the upbringing of
a child. The experience of living and working with a guide dog is not
universal, meaning it is not a common experience, and is restricted to
a certain group of people. So yes, people will rain their
misconceptions upon you by offering criticisms, baseless expectations,
and hurtful comments about the partnership.
Of course, this partnership comes with its own difficulties, as every
partnership does. But I personally become more frustrated far quicker
with a child than I do with any dog.
If I had to choose, which I already  have, I'll take a dog every time
for a multitude of reasons that are off topic.

On 5/16/14, Daryl Marie via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Rebecca,
>
> This is quite timely... I feel the same way of having a new dog.  Granted, I
> think part of my stress is due to the fact that I know she can and does
> behave better. LOL  But I mentioned this to a friend with kids, and he said
> that my dog is WAY better behaved than any child under 5 he's ever seen.
> LOL
>
> I don't have the added experience of having had babies, but my friends who
> have had dogs and babies have said what Rebecca has earlier stated - with
> babies you figure things out as you go, but with dogs the perception is that
> the dog is trained and you're an adult so what's with the making mistakes
> thing?
>
> You mentioned barf... got a first-time barfing just this morning!  LOL
>
> Daryl and under-the-weather Jenny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Fri, 16 May 2014 07:20:48 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
>
> Thank you Buddy.
> I was meaning that when you get a new dog, people expect total
> functionality. The dog is trained after all, and they view it as "better
> then cane". If you have any kinks, well shouldn't those have been resolved
> during training? If the dog needs to rest, well it's there to help you
> after
> all, why should it need to rest. If it has trouble handling a situation
> well, why wasn't that anticipated and resolved before?
> You don't have any of that with a baby. I was encouraged to rest and enjoy
> myself with my kids way more then I ever was with my dogs. When my kids
> cried and I didn't have a clue what they wanted, that was ok, in time I'd
> figure it out. When they barfed, maybe they didn't digest the food
> properly,
> it would all sort itself in time. If they wouldn't nap, adjusting to being
> in the outside world is tricky, they'll get used to it.
> The expection that I'd have it all figured out from day one wasn't there.
> That wasn't true with either of my dogs. I was expected to hit the ground
> running and to keep on running. The dogs are there to work and by God
> they'd
> better do it. They're there to enhance your life and they'd better not do
> anything that puts a damper on what you want to do. They'd better eat the
> food they're given and handle it properly. I think part of this may be that
> we disappear to get new dogs and our friends and families don't really know
> what goes on when we're gone.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Brannan
> via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
>
> Far be it for me to stick up for Rebecca, I'm sure she can stick up for
> herself, but.
>
> To be fair, she ain't the only one. Many's the time (as grammatically
> incorrect as that may be) that I've seen the same comparison, although, in
> fact, comparing the actual guide dog to a child. I think Rebecca's
> comparison is actually pretty fair, insofar as she has both given birth and
> gotten a first guide dog. I have not given birth, but in some ways, the
> adjustment to a dog, especially a first dog, has its own special set of
> difficulties. Sometimes the problems are the same. For instance, the
> friends
> who come by to see the cute baby (or guide dog) may become reluctant to
> visit or socialize (or in our cases, sometimes, let us ride in their cars)
> because of the cute baby or guide dog. While it's true that this sometimes
> separates true friends from your casual hangers-on, it doesn't make the
> problems and the adjustments any less real. I'm sure we could take the
> analogy further if we wanted, but there seems to be little need.
>
> Where I will agree with you is when we talk about how some people accept
> some behaviors from children while other behaviors are not acceptable by
> guide dogs; cleaning up after a guide dog is like cleaning up after the
> spew
> from a child; the whole (to my mind) nausea-inducing "I'm my doggie's
> mommy/daddy" thing, and on and on. Such comparisons do not, in my mind,
> advance our cause any and are, again to my way of thinking, on which I am
> an
> expert, usually not accurate or appropriate. My dog is not a child in a fur
> coat with four legs. He is a dog, with his own mind, very different from
> mine, his own needs, again very different from mine, and society's own
> expectations of him, again very different from the expectations of a human
> child. This by no means says I think guide dog handlers should be more lax,
> or that parents of children should be less strict. Far from it, I think
> some
> of us could stand to be less lenient on both counts.
>
> So all that to say, before you jump on a knee-jerk reaction to the
> comparison, please evaluate its usefulness first.
> On May 15, 2014, at 7:34 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Rebecca,
>>
>> Why do you always compare guide dogs to children?
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 15, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Add to this that people will expect your dog to be a fully functional
>> guide, and you to be a fully functional handler.
>> You don't have that dynamic in play when you get a puppy.
>> I've said it before, and I'll say it now, having a new baby is easier
>> then getting your first guide dog.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:03 AM
>> To: Name, Full
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
>>
>> Well said, and very good point.
>> To me getting a new guide is like getting a new puppy, you have to
>> take time to get to know each other, how each other works and there
>> needs. You need to bond, and the dog needs to know that you are one he
>> is to work with, and not every other person who comes by. the big
>> thing I believe is that the dog needs to know that you are the boss,
>> and not to pay attention to everyone else.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:35:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
>>
>> John,
>>
>> A couple of things. First, some of the things that you are telling us
>> are not making sense and are contradicting each other. What exactly
>> has happened, in order, with applications and acceptance?
>> Second, if there is a possibility that you might go to get a dog in
>> August, you really need to stop and think this over more. Yes, things
>> that cannot be avoided happen, and colleges make exceptions, but I
>> feel that this is different. You cannot miss four weeks of a class and
>> still pass it, at least not with a half way decent grade, unless it's
>> a class where there is only one class a week with a really light work
>> load. Even if you can retake the class, do you really want to have to?
>> Retaking a class often means paying
>>
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-- 
Raven




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