[nagdu] guide dog school problem

Fri May 16 15:46:35 UTC 2014

You can tell people this until you're dead, and most will not get it. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of via nagdu
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 11:15 AM
To: Name, Full
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem

I just read these e mails, and I think that as the dog user, it is our job
to tell people, I will be getting a new dog and he will be young and not yet
as good as the last one I had. He will be fresh out of tou don't have to
like my comparison, but silly it is not. 
raining, and now I have to finish training him to do the things I need him
to do the way I need them done. 
If they real get stupid about the new dog not doing every thing right, ask
them how long after they got out of school and got a job did they know how
to do everything and not make a mistake. I bet no one gets their first job
and doesn't screw up many times. 
If they want to compare your dog to a child, ask them if their kids were
potty trained at two, Can their kids walk across the street and tell when it
is safe to go, at two. Do their kids know their left from their right, at
two. Can your kid be quiet at dinner and let the grown ups talk, at two. 
that is just silly to compare the dog and the kids, I will take the dog any
day. 

Barb
----- Original Message -----

From: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 9:49:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem 

that's for sure. I made one coment about tres when I first got him and have
never lived it down. Us learning to be a team didn't seem to be even
considered relevant. 
On 5/16/2014 7:20 AM, Star Gazer via nagdu wrote: 
> Thank you Buddy. 
> I was meaning that when you get a new dog, people expect total 
> functionality. The dog is trained after all, and they view it as 
> "better then cane". If you have any kinks, well shouldn't those have 
> been resolved during training? If the dog needs to rest, well it's 
> there to help you after all, why should it need to rest. If it has 
> trouble handling a situation well, why wasn't that anticipated and
resolved before?
> You don't have any of that with a baby. I was encouraged to rest and 
> enjoy myself with my kids way more then I ever was with my dogs. When 
> my kids cried and I didn't have a clue what they wanted, that was ok, 
> in time I'd figure it out. When they barfed, maybe they didn't digest 
> the food properly, it would all sort itself in time. If they wouldn't 
> nap, adjusting to being in the outside world is tricky, they'll get used
to it.
> The expection that I'd have it all figured out from day one wasn't there. 
> That wasn't true with either of my dogs. I was expected to hit the 
> ground running and to keep on running. The dogs are there to work and 
> by God they'd better do it. They're there to enhance your life and 
> they'd better not do anything that puts a damper on what you want to 
> do. They'd better eat the food they're given and handle it properly. I 
> think part of this may be that we disappear to get new dogs and our 
> friends and families don't really know what goes on when we're gone.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy 
> Brannan via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 7:59 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
> 
> Far be it for me to stick up for Rebecca, I'm sure she can stick up 
> for herself, but.
> 
> To be fair, she ain't the only one. Many's the time (as grammatically 
> incorrect as that may be) that I've seen the same comparison, 
> although, in fact, comparing the actual guide dog to a child. I think 
> Rebecca's comparison is actually pretty fair, insofar as she has both 
> given birth and gotten a first guide dog. I have not given birth, but 
> in some ways, the adjustment to a dog, especially a first dog, has its 
> own special set of difficulties. Sometimes the problems are the same. 
> For instance, the friends who come by to see the cute baby (or guide 
> dog) may become reluctant to visit or socialize (or in our cases, 
> sometimes, let us ride in their cars) because of the cute baby or 
> guide dog. While it's true that this sometimes separates true friends 
> from your casual hangers-on, it doesn't make the problems and the 
> adjustments any less real. I'm sure we could take the analogy further if
we wanted, but there seems to be little need.
> 
> Where I will agree with you is when we talk about how some people 
> accept some behaviors from children while other behaviors are not 
> acceptable by guide dogs; cleaning up after a guide dog is like 
> cleaning up after the spew from a child; the whole (to my mind) 
> nausea-inducing "I'm my doggie's mommy/daddy" thing, and on and on. 
> Such comparisons do not, in my mind, advance our cause any and are, 
> again to my way of thinking, on which I am an expert, usually not 
> accurate or appropriate. My dog is not a child in a fur coat with four 
> legs. He is a dog, with his own mind, very different from mine, his 
> own needs, again very different from mine, and society's own 
> expectations of him, again very different from the expectations of a 
> human child. This by no means says I think guide dog handlers should 
> be more lax, or that parents of children should be less strict. Far from
it, I think some of us could stand to be less lenient on both counts.
> 
> So all that to say, before you jump on a knee-jerk reaction to the 
> comparison, please evaluate its usefulness first.
> On May 15, 2014, at 7:34 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote: 
> 
>> Rebecca,
>> 
>> Why do you always compare guide dogs to children? 
>> 
>> Nicole
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 15, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote: 
>> Add to this that people will expect your dog to be a fully functional 
>> guide, and you to be a fully functional handler.
>> You don't have that dynamic in play when you get a puppy. 
>> I've said it before, and I'll say it now, having a new baby is easier 
>> then getting your first guide dog.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 11:03 AM
>> To: Name, Full
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
>> 
>> Well said, and very good point. 
>> To me getting a new guide is like getting a new puppy, you have to 
>> take time to get to know each other, how each other works and there 
>> needs. You need to bond, and the dog needs to know that you are one 
>> he is to work with, and not every other person who comes by. the big 
>> thing I believe is that the dog needs to know that you are the boss, 
>> and not to pay attention to everyone else.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> 
>> From: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "Name, Full" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:35:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school problem
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> A couple of things. First, some of the things that you are telling us 
>> are not making sense and are contradicting each other. What exactly 
>> has happened, in order, with applications and acceptance?
>> Second, if there is a possibility that you might go to get a dog in 
>> August, you really need to stop and think this over more. Yes, things 
>> that cannot be avoided happen, and colleges make exceptions, but I 
>> feel that this is different. You cannot miss four weeks of a class 
>> and still pass it, at least not with a half way decent grade, unless 
>> it's a class where there is only one class a week with a really light 
>> work load. Even if you can retake the class, do you really want to have
to?
>> Retaking a class often means paying
>> 
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