[nagdu] Coconut oil vs. canned pumpkin RE: Why i can't feed my dog raw.

Nicole Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sun Nov 23 19:58:41 UTC 2014


Okay, so some of it was that we had different definitions for the same term
and did not know it. I thought that change meant change altogether, so I
will take that part of it back. However, there are still parts of your email
with which I do not agree. Yes, if there is actually something wrong, then
something does need to be done other than just adding pumpkin. But adding
pumpkin is not always slapping a band aid on it. If all that the dog needs
is more fiber, then pumpkin may be the solution. I also do not agree that
feeding pumpkin, in general, is a bad thing. Yes, there are certain fruits
and vegetables that I would never give a dog, either in there whole form or
in kibble, but, in my opinion, pumpkin does not fall into this category. I
might point out that people on the list, including yourself, have at one
point or another recommended using pumpkin. Had I known that pumpkin was an
option at the time that Lexia was having problems, I probably would have
tried it. If my next dog needs fiber, I will probably try pumpkin.

Nicole

-----Original Message-----
From: Raven Tolliver [mailto:ravend729 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2014 2:18 PM
To: Nicole Torcolini
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Coconut oil vs. canned pumpkin RE: Why i can't feed my
dog raw.

Nicole,
I'm not sure what was untrue in my post. One of the things I said was "if a
dog can't get firm stool on his current food because of a bug, sensitivity,
or lack of something important, a diet change should be in order[.]"
A diet change doesn't necessarily mean switching foods. Changing your diet
could be as simple as adding or subtracting something. For instance, if you
started feeding Lexia one food rather than two, you've changed her diet.


On 11/21/14, Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Excuse me, but this is not necessarily true. Some dogs just need more
fiber.
> If Lexia does not get enough fiber, her stool is not right, but there 
> is nothing else wrong. There a couple of solutions. Lexia eats two foods.
>
> Nicole
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 20, 2014, at 8:56 PM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Deanna,
> The first thing to know about poop is that it is normal for it to be 
> different from day to day, or from every few days, or from meal to 
> meal. Everyone's output differs according to their input. My dog has 
> looser stool when he eats fattier meats, has soft stool on certain 
> boneless meats, and has perfectly firm stool on other proteins. Also, 
> if the body is trying to get rid of something, stuff might get sloppy 
> for a couple days.
> Needing to firm up the stool should not be a concern. Instead, the 
> concern should be what the loose stool says about what's happening 
> inside. Has the dog eaten something different lately? Is the dog's 
> body throwing off a bug? Did the dog just have a particularly rough or 
> exciting day? All these things matter. Adding pumpkin doesn't affect 
> those factors in the least. And I will never promote feeding 
> biologically inappropriate stuff for maintenance or therapeutic 
> purposes.
> Pumpkin can produce firm stool depending on what the dog has going on.
> For instance, my dog had giardia earlier this year. There was no fruit 
> that could firm up his stool.
> In my opinion, adding pumpkin to the food is slapping a Band-aid over 
> the problem. You end up thinking everything's good because you can't 
> see the loose stool anymore. Meanwhile, something could be happening 
> inside that's not being properly addressed. For instance, if a dog 
> can't get firm stool on his current food because of a bug, 
> sensitivity, or lack of something important, a diet change should be 
> in order, or proper protocol should be taken to address the bug.
>
> I have never heard of coconut oil firming up stool. I'm not saying it 
> can't or won't, just that I've never heard this before. I know it is 
> antimicrobial, antiviral, and such, but never heard of it firming up 
> stool. It is a healthy thing for your dog to eat, though it contains 
> Omega-6. As I've said in an email on an earlier post, the standard 
> diet for dogs and people is already high in Omega-6. The problem with 
> this is that omega-6 feeds inflammation. This is why a great number of 
> people and dogs nowadays have cancer, allergies, immune deficiencies, 
> and other disorders caused by inflammation. If you give coconut oil, 
> be sure to give a proper fish oil supplement as well. The ideal diet 
> is more balanced in general, but especially in omegas. A dog fed raw 
> meat, bones and organs has a diet balanced in essential fats.
> Deanna,
> The first thing to know about poop is that it is normal for it to be 
> different from day to day, or from every few days, or from meal to 
> meal. Everyone's output differs according to their input. My dog has 
> looser stool when he eats fattier meats, has soft stool on certain 
> boneless meats, and has perfectly firm stool on other proteins. Also, 
> if the body is trying to get rid of something, stuff might get sloppy 
> for a couple days.
> Needing to firm up the stool should not be a concern. Instead, the 
> concern should be what the loose stool says about what's happening 
> inside. Has the dog eaten something different lately? Is the dog's 
> body throwing off a bug? Did the dog just have a particularly rough or 
> exciting day? All these things matter. Adding pumpkin doesn't affect 
> those factors in the least. And I will never promote feeding 
> biologically inappropriate stuff for maintenance or therapeutic 
> purposes.
> Pumpkin can produce firm stool depending on what the dog has going on.
> For instance, my dog had giardia earlier this year. There was no fruit 
> that could firm up his stool.
> In my opinion, adding pumpkin to the food is slapping a Band-aid over 
> the problem. You end up thinking everything's good because you can't 
> see the loose stool anymore. Meanwhile, something could be happening 
> inside that's not being properly addressed. For instance, if a dog 
> can't get firm stool on his current food because of a bug, 
> sensitivity, or lack of something important, a diet change should be 
> in order, or proper protocol should be taken to address the bug.
>
> I have never heard of coconut oil firming up stool. I'm not saying it 
> can't or won't, just that I've never heard this before. I know it is 
> antimicrobial, antiviral, and such, but never heard of it firming up 
> stool. It is a healthy thing for your dog to eat, though it contains 
> Omega-6. As I've said in an email on an earlier post, the standard 
> diet for dogs and people is already high in Omega-6. The problem with 
> this is that omega-6 feeds inflammation. This is why a great number of 
> people and dogs nowadays have cancer, allergies, immune deficiencies, 
> and other disorders caused by inflammation. If you give coconut oil, 
> be sure to give a proper fish oil supplement as well. The ideal diet 
> is more balanced in general, but especially in omegas. A dog fed raw 
> meat, bones and organs has a diet balanced in essential fats.
> --
> Raven
> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
> http://dogtorj.com
>
>
>> On 11/20/14, Deanna Lewis via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Do both of these help by producing firmer and bulkier stools? On 
>> Pascal's old food, I gave him some canned pumpkin to help fill him up 
>> and for the fiber. He was straining a bit at relieving time and it 
>> seemed to help. He does get loose stools from time to time, so I am 
>> just wondering if coconut oil can help with that? What are the pros 
>> and cons of both of these? Any further info would be great. Thanks!
>> Deanna
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna 
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:24 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Why i can't feed my dog raw.
>>
>> I wanted to tell you folks about my attempt to put my dog on a raw 
>> food diet.
>> i am well aware that a raw food diet is the best for a dog so, in 
>> march i decided to finally give it a try with this dog.  i had just 
>> moved into a house and now have loads of freezer space as well as a back
yard.
>> this dog has had digestive issues since i got her.  she is now 5 and 
>> a half.
>> she loved it, ate everything i presented her with and seemed to be 
>> doing well until august when i started noticing more large pieces of 
>> bone in her stool.  (a good reason to always pick up after your dog, 
>> even if you have a back yard).
>> i talked to the folks over at www.rawpaws.org and they suggested i 
>> pull her off of everything but chicken as it's the easiest to digest.  
>> so, i did that but, nope, still bone, and more bone in the stool.
>> i talked to my vet and she said to feed her ground.  so, i tried that 
>> for a couple weeks then added bone-in chicken back and, still bones.  
>> i mean, up to 5 or 6 big pieces in one stool.
>> i was getting concerne at this point.
>> i talked to the vet again and she suggested ii get a meat grinder.  
>> now, this is a fine idea , however, i travel a lot and can not lug a 
>> grinder around with me.
>> so, i decided to put her back on dog food.  i looked at some 
>> dehydrated foods and, they are either super costly or, i was not 
>> thrilled about the ingredients.
>> so, i decided to try her on Orijen.
>> she has been on it now for 3 weeks and, it's like having a puppy back.
>> her
>> energy level has gone way up.  she is playing with her toys again, 
>> she is extremely super excited about working.  so much so that, i am 
>> still having to hold onto the leash in my right hand when i tell her, 
>> forward.  she just explodes into the harness.
>> her stools are still not as firm as i would like so, i am continuing 
>> to give her a teaspoon of coconut oil in her evening meal until it 
>> firms up.
>>
>> just thought i would tell you all my story.
>>
>> Vivianna
>>
>>
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--
Raven
"if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
http://dogtorj.com





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