[nagdu] when dogs are working?

Ann Edie annedie at nycap.rr.com
Thu Oct 2 10:14:30 UTC 2014 

Hi, Danielle,

Since miniature horse service animals are the only exception under the ADA
to the "dogs only" definition of service animals, I would have the same
rights to public access under the ADA as a service dog user, with the
exception that the management of the place of public accommodation can ask a
couple of additional questions to make sure that the miniature horse guide
is house trained and under the handler's control and that the size and
weight of the animal can be accommodated within the facility or program.
Actually, I have always thought that the question about housetraining is
kind of silly, since the housetraining of dogs is at least as problematic as
is the case with service minis. But that's the way it goes.

There are about half a dozen guide horse users that I know of, maybe more by
now, since one of the guide horse users has trained a couple for other
people.  That same guide horse user has been a graduate student since she
got her miniature horse guide, so she attended classes and traveled about
the campus with her guide on a regular basis. All of the miniature horse
guides that I know of, with the exception of the first one, have been
trained by private trainers or owner trained, or a combination of those two
methods. As far as I am aware, there is no active miniature horse guide
training program at this time.

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Antoine
via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 12:05 AM
To: Larry D Keeler; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] when dogs are working?

All right Ms. Ann! Very well put. Now When it comes to Panda, how is/would
she be handled on a college campus. I was thinking of you yesterday and hear
you go and chime in. Are you the only guide horse user?  How is the training
and housing done at your school?

Danielle

On 10/1/14, Larry D Keeler via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Never heard that one! But it doesn't surprise me me any!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Weiner via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Skewis, Brian at DCA'" <Brian.Skewis at dca.ca.gov>; "'NAGDU Mailing 
> List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] when dogs are working?
>
>
> No comments on that directly but a question:
> I met one person when looking for appartments way back in maryland, 
> that told me if my dog was with me renting an appartment he would have 
> to wear a harness all the time I was living there, I inquired as to 
> this and was told that meant if I took the harness off at home he wouldn't
be a service dog.
> I didn't rent that appartment actually but wonder if anyone had ever 
> been hit with that one--lol
>
> Dan W.
> dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Skewis, 
> Brian at DCA via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 12:59 PM
> To: Julie J.; NAGDU Mailing List, the NationalAssociation of Guide Dog 
> Users; Abigail Bolling
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] when dogs are working?
>
> Under the letter of the law, the advisor is both correct and incorrect 
> at the same time.  ADA law states in section 36.302 (regarding places 
> of public
> accommodation) that "a service animal shall be under the control of 
> its handler. A service animal shall have a harness, leash, or other 
> tether, unless either the handler is unable because of a disability to 
> use a harness, leash, or other tether, or the use of a harness, leash, 
> or other tether would interfere with the service animal´s safe, 
> effective performance of work or tasks, in which case the service 
> animal must be otherwise under the handler´s control".
>
> With that being said, just because Jada is off leash doesn't mean she 
> isn't a service animal.  That is where the advisor is incorrect.  The 
> definition of a service animal according to ADA is a dog that is 
> individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a 
> disability.  Being off leash and/or harness means that she isn't in 
> discharge of her duties at that time, not that she isn't a service 
> animal.  Regardless of whether she is controllable or not off leash, 
> the leash doesn't interfere with her performance and it doesn't seem 
> like, as the handler, you are unable to use a harness or leash since 
> you use those tools regularly.  So in a place of public accommodation, 
> Jada should be leashed.
>
> Moving forward, I would recommend establishing a policy identifying 
> that specific place as a location where service animals can be off 
> leash as long as they are under the control of their handler.  It 
> doesn't seem like an unreasonable request and I'd venture to say that 
> as long as you keep moving up the chain of command at the school, 
> you'll find a dog lover that understands and appreciates your position.
>
> I hope this helps,
>
> Brian Skewis
> Executive Officer
> California State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind
> Office: 916-574-7825
> Email: brian.skewis at dca.ca.gov
> www.guidedogboard.ca.gov
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. 
> via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:03 AM
> To: Abigail Bolling; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of 
> Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] when dogs are working?
>
> *Being a student organization, we have a room in the student union 
> which is considered a "safe space" where we can relax and be ourselves.
> h=The alliance has made it clear to me that if I am on break, then, 
> obviously by decision but my dog should get some down time too. I 
> agree completely. *
>
> So it sounds to me that your group is totally okay with her being off 
> leash and they enjoy seeing her have that time to relax.  If this is 
> the views of the group, then it seems to me to be just fine.
>
> It is the dog's training that makes it a service dog.  All the 
> equipment does is allow you to utilize the training.  There are 
> service dogs who don't need to wear anything like alert dogs for deaf 
> individuals and dogs who assist with retrieving for folks in 
> wheelchairs or dogs who alert to medical conditions like seizures.
>
> It is a public place, I think, and there is a responsibility to keep 
> your dog under control, but I don't think that means you have to have 
> her on leash.  I have Monty out of harness and off leash in my office 
> at work.  It is a public place, anyone could stop by at any time.  I 
> even allow him to interact with certain people.  He's under control 
> and is still a service dog.  Jetta isn't ready for that level of 
> freedom yet.  It's all about knowing your dog and what they can handle.
>
> Perhaps it would help if your group made the off leash thing official 
> by putting it in the rules, then the staff member would back off?  I 
> don't know.
>
> Julie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Abigail Bolling via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] when dogs are working?
>
> hey all!
>
> So I recently started hanging out with a group of students called the 
> rainbow alliance on campus.
> Being a student organization, we have a room in the student union 
> which is considered a "safe space" where we can relax and be ourselves.
> h=The alliance has made it clear to me that if I am on break, then, 
> obviously by decision but my dog should get some down time too. I 
> agree completely. my dog is easy to control off leash and harness. 
> They are completely comfortable with me taking my dog out of harness 
> and all of the people who hang out in the room love dogs. There are at 
> least 3 other people with service dogs who frequent that room, so it 
> is nothing new to have a pup running around greeting people.
>
> Today, we had an advisor come in the room and tell us that our dogs 
> are not considered service animals if they are not in their full working
gear.
> My question is what should I do about this situation?
> Should I fill out an incident report and have this advisor informed 
> about the laws and regulations about service dogs, or is he correct?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Abby and Puppy Jada
>
> Abigail Bolling
> Wright State University: Social Work
>
> "Keep a smile on your face and  a song in your heart, and just let the 
> music play." (Julie Anderson-Diamond) 
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