[nagdu] nagdu Digest, Vol 115, Issue 13
Donna Elliott
donnatelliott at gmail.com
Fri Oct 10 01:23:30 UTC 2014
Barry, you and your family are being held in prayer. I am especially praying for complete physical and emotional healing for your ten month old grandson. Please keep us updated and know we are here for you during a roller coaster of emotions. You're not alone. As a grandparent, my heart goes out to you. Donna
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 9, 2014, at 8:43 PM, nagdu-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Some people aren't very bright ... :) (debby phillips)
> 2. Re: some sad news to share on Odie (debby phillips)
> 3. Re: Some people aren't very bright ... :) (debby phillips)
> 4. Re: Some people aren't very bright ... :) (Vivianna)
> 5. Worst day of my life (Barry Vaughn)
> 6. Re: Some people aren't very bright ... :) (Raven Tolliver)
> 7. Re: guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness (Julie McGinnity)
> 8. Re: guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness (Deanna Lewis)
> 9. Re: guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness (Matthew Dierckens)
> 10. Re: Worst day of my life (Deanna Lewis)
> 11. Re: Worst day of my life (Becky Frankeberger)
> 12. Re: Worst day of my life (L Gwizdak)
> 13. Re: Worst day of my life (Star Gazer)
> 14. Re: Worst day of my life (Aleeha Dudley)
> 15. Re: Worst day of my life (Abigail Bolling)
> 16. Re: Worst day of my life (Star Gazer)
> 17. Re: Worst day of my life (Cindy Ray)
> 18. Re: Worst day of my life (Cindy Ray)
> 19. Re: Worst day of my life (Valerie Gibson)
> 20. guide Dogs' exposure to children WAS Worst day of my life
> (Daryl Marie)
> 21. Worst day of my life (Barry Vaughn)
> 22. Re: Worst day of my life (Tracy Carcione)
> 23. Re: Worst day of my life (L Gwizdak)
> 24. Re: Worst day of my life (L Gwizdak)
> 25. Re: Worst day of my life (Cindy Ray)
> 26. Re: Worst day of my life (Star Gazer)
> 27. Re: Worst day of my life (Shannon Dyer)
> 28. Re: Worst day of my life (Sharonda Greenlaw)
> 29. Re: Worst day of my life (Danielle Antoine)
> 30. Re: Worst day of my life (Kerri Stovall)
> 31. Re: Worst day of my life (Kerri Stovall)
> 32. Re: Worst day of my life (Emily Michael)
> 33. Re: Worst day of my life (Larry D Keeler)
> 34. Re: Worst day of my life (Nicole Torcolini)
> 35. Re: Worst day of my life (Buddy Brannan)
> 36. Re: Some people aren't very bright ... :) (Nicole Torcolini)
> 37. Re: Worst day of my life (Marsha Drenth)
> 38. Re: Worst day of my life (Marsha Drenth)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 05:38:17 -0700
> From: debby phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com>
> To: Larry D Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>,
> bakerdebra53 at gmail.com, nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some people aren't very bright ... :)
> Message-ID: <543681c1.65e1320a.728c.1494 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It's still around, I know. But I'm not sure about using it for
> dogs. Guess I would if my vet said to and it was a matter of
> getting rid of poison. Peace, Debby and Neena
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 05:38:20 -0700
> From: debby phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com>
> To: Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire <orleans24 at comcast.net>,
> "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] some sad news to share on Odie
> Message-ID: <543681c4.65e1320a.728c.149c at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Oh my! I'm behind, so there may be more info about your Odie. I
> hope that all is well. I'm praying. Blessings, Debby and
> Neena
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 05:38:18 -0700
> From: debby phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com>
> To: "Mark J. Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>,
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some people aren't very bright ... :)
> Message-ID: <543681c3.65e1320a.728c.1498 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Mark, I applaud you for not doing the "food fad thing". Finding
> something else that is a motivator for our dogs is awesome! I
> think one reason we tend to use food as a reward is our own use
> of food or drink as a reward for ourselves. (This is just my
> opinion). But think about this. We have a great day at work,
> get a raise, or whatever. Often we go out to dinner to
> celebrate. Or we have a bad day at work, and we head for the
> nearest vending machine for that candy bar. Yes, food is quick,
> and effective, but I for one don't want to encourage that food
> drive too much. Thanks for a good idea, Mark. Peace, Debby
> and NEENA who loves to play tug and toss the KONG.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 08:05:16 -0500
> From: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some people aren't very bright ... :)
> Message-ID: <C9E0071C-5AE1-4A38-BC0A-65C469510F5C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I completely agree.
> it just does not make sense to try and train your dog to refuse food by giving him food.
> i want my dog to work for praise. and, she does.
> so many folks these days are all on the band wagon of food rewards. probably, in a couple years, there will be some other dog training fad.
> i?ll never forget the story of a blind woman who ran out of treats for her guide dog (GDB) in the mall of america. that dog refused to work for her without them. and, that place is absolutely huge.
> for that reason, as well as the dog?s complete fixation on food, that dog was returned to the school.
> i am traditional training all the way.
> Vivianna
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 7:38 AM, debby phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Mark, I applaud you for not doing the "food fad thing". Finding something else that is a motivator for our dogs is awesome! I think one reason we tend to use food as a reward is our own use of food or drink as a reward for ourselves. (This is just my opinion). But think about this. We have a great day at work, get a raise, or whatever. Often we go out to dinner to celebrate. Or we have a bad day at work, and we head for the nearest vending machine for that candy bar. Yes, food is quick, and effective, but I for one don't want to encourage that food drive too much. Thanks for a good idea, Mark. Peace, Debby and NEENA who loves to play tug and toss the KONG.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/irishana%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:10:01 -0400
> From: "Barry Vaughn" <georgia68bear at charter.net>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <ALENJIPKHODJNGNGEPDKOEGDCIAA.georgia68bear at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>
> Please pray for me and my family.
>
> Barry and guide Jake
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:25:16 -0400
> From: Raven Tolliver <ravend729 at gmail.com>
> To: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some people aren't very bright ... :)
> Message-ID:
> <CACQ+kou3sOqEWXM_zovCvJqPveus5a5yCitLZSbSA6DEeb5c2Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> An aspect of clicker training, or positive reinforcement training is
> using multiple reinforcers. Food is not the only reinforcer. It really
> depends on the dog and the situation. Other rewards can be play,
> sniffing, digging, marking, petting/scratching, or verbal praise, just
> to name a few. That list is not exhaustive by any means. I think most
> of the schools that use food rewards are (a) new to positive
> reinforcement training, and (b) believe that food is the quickest,
> most convenient, and most effective reward. While it is quick and
> convenient, it is not always practical. As others have mentioned, food
> is highly distracting to some dogs to the point that it hinders their
> work. Also, some schools might not teach or talk the handler through
> phasing out the treats. This is something many people struggle with,
> but it must be done. You don't want to eternally rely on food, or any
> reward for that matter, to get a behavior, or a behavior
> well-performed. You want to train the dog so that eventually, an
> occasional reward will be enough to keep the behavior coming, even if
> the reward is not a primary reinforcer.
> It is great to incorporate play as a reward with any behavior that you
> want to improve with your dog. It's best to just know your own dog,
> and do what works most effectively and communicates what you want. For
> some dogs, food is more distracting, for others, play is highly
> distracting. It's important to not adhere to the assembly-line
> training approach that some schools seem to have.
>
>
>> On 10/9/14, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I completely agree.
>> it just does not make sense to try and train your dog to refuse food by
>> giving him food.
>> i want my dog to work for praise. and, she does.
>> so many folks these days are all on the band wagon of food rewards.
>> probably, in a couple years, there will be some other dog training fad.
>> i'll never forget the story of a blind woman who ran out of treats for her
>> guide dog (GDB) in the mall of america. that dog refused to work for her
>> without them. and, that place is absolutely huge.
>> for that reason, as well as the dog's complete fixation on food, that dog
>> was returned to the school.
>> i am traditional training all the way.
>> Vivianna
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 7:38 AM, debby phillips via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark, I applaud you for not doing the "food fad thing". Finding something
>>> else that is a motivator for our dogs is awesome! I think one reason we
>>> tend to use food as a reward is our own use of food or drink as a reward
>>> for ourselves. (This is just my opinion). But think about this. We have
>>> a great day at work, get a raise, or whatever. Often we go out to dinner
>>> to celebrate. Or we have a bad day at work, and we head for the nearest
>>> vending machine for that candy bar. Yes, food is quick, and effective,
>>> but I for one don't want to encourage that food drive too much. Thanks
>>> for a good idea, Mark. Peace, Debby and NEENA who loves to play tug
>>> and toss the KONG.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/irishana%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ravend729%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Raven
> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
> http://dogtorj.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:30:55 -0500
> From: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>
> To: Michael Hingson <Mike at michaelhingson.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
> Message-ID:
> <CAHox4DK8pGT=cZFuuhyH2AT8GOPCX9GLdH-BaQ2hgUchpTf-ow at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hey Emily,
>
> I kept a blog while I was at GEB this summer and still use it to
> chronicle my adventures in performing. I'll give you the link:
> adivaandherdog.wordpress.com
>
> Yes, it is a diva and her dog. :)
>
>> On 10/8/14, Michael Hingson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> You are welcome to link to my site, www.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> Mike Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Emily Michael
>> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 05:56 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
>>
>> Good evening friends,
>>
>> I'm slowly adding more resources to my blog, and I'd like to create a page
>> with links to blogs by blind writers and blogs about guide dogs. If you
>> know
>> of a good blindness blog, send me the link!
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>> Emily, with York
>>
>> ---
>> Emily K. Michael
>> emily.k.michael at gmail.com
>> Blog: http://areyouseeingthis.wordpress.com/
>>
>> "Nowhere, Love, will world exist but within."
>> - Rainer Maria Rilke
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Julie McGinnity
> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, National Federation
> of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary,
> graduate Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
> 2 Cor. 7
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 14:58:07 +0000
> From: Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org>
> To: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
> Message-ID:
> <C6F9E6AFF2A60148AFD6B782AFAF04A601644DC4 at clovermail2.clovernook.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Emily,
> I am retiring my guide dog, Pascal soon. I started a blog a month or so ago, here is the link.
>
> http://anewleashinmylife.wordpress.com
>
> It's A New Leash in my Life. I only have one entry so far (smiles), but more will be coming soon! It should be pretty active while I am in training in March.
> Anyone can feel free to follow it as well.
> Deanna and soon to be retired, Pascal
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie McGinnity via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 10:31 AM
> To: Michael Hingson; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
>
> Hey Emily,
>
> I kept a blog while I was at GEB this summer and still use it to chronicle my adventures in performing. I'll give you the link:
> adivaandherdog.wordpress.com
>
> Yes, it is a diva and her dog. :)
>
>> On 10/8/14, Michael Hingson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> You are welcome to link to my site, www.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> Mike Hingson
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Emily
>> Michael via nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 05:56 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
>>
>> Good evening friends,
>>
>> I'm slowly adding more resources to my blog, and I'd like to create a
>> page with links to blogs by blind writers and blogs about guide dogs.
>> If you know of a good blindness blog, send me the link!
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>> Emily, with York
>>
>> ---
>> Emily K. Michael
>> emily.k.michael at gmail.com
>> Blog: http://areyouseeingthis.wordpress.com/
>>
>> "Nowhere, Love, will world exist but within."
>> - Rainer Maria Rilke
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhings
>> on.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.c
>> om
>
>
> --
> Julie McGinnity
> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary, Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, National Federation of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary, graduate Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014 "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
> 2 Cor. 7
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dlewis%40clovernook.org
>
> --
> This email was Virus checked by UTM 9. http://www.sophos.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:03:08 -0400
> From: Matthew Dierckens <matt.dierckens at me.com>
> To: Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
> Message-ID: <B1F13B14-6823-4D72-9E87-81832F0BD628 at me.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hello Emily, if you'd like a blog about blindness as well as guide dogs, check out this blog that I help out with.
> www.livingblindblog.com
>
> God bless. :)
> Matthew Dierckens
> Macintosh Trainer
> Blind Access Training
> www.blindaccesstraining.com
> 1-877-774-7670, extension 3
> work email:
> matthew at blindaccesstraining.com
> Personal email:
> matt.dierckens at me.com
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 10:30, Julie McGinnity via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Emily,
>>
>> I kept a blog while I was at GEB this summer and still use it to
>> chronicle my adventures in performing. I'll give you the link:
>> adivaandherdog.wordpress.com
>>
>> Yes, it is a diva and her dog. :)
>>
>>> On 10/8/14, Michael Hingson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> You are welcome to link to my site, www.michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Hingson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Emily Michael
>>> via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 05:56 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] guide dog blogs & blogs on blindness
>>>
>>> Good evening friends,
>>>
>>> I'm slowly adding more resources to my blog, and I'd like to create a page
>>> with links to blogs by blind writers and blogs about guide dogs. If you
>>> know
>>> of a good blindness blog, send me the link!
>>>
>>> Thanks so much,
>>> Emily, with York
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Emily K. Michael
>>> emily.k.michael at gmail.com
>>> Blog: http://areyouseeingthis.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> "Nowhere, Love, will world exist but within."
>>> - Rainer Maria Rilke
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McGinnity
>> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President, National Federation
>> of the Blind of Missouri recording secretary,
>> graduate Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
>> 2 Cor. 7
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:03:53 +0000
> From: Deanna Lewis <DLewis at clovernook.org>
> To: Barry Vaughn <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID:
> <C6F9E6AFF2A60148AFD6B782AFAF04A601644DDD at clovermail2.clovernook.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Barry,
> I am so sorry to hear this. May I ask what breed you dog is? How old is he?
> I hope that your grandson will be ok. This is just so bizarre. You will be in my thoughts.
> Deanna and Pascal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 10:10 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>
> Please pray for me and my family.
>
> Barry and guide Jake
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dlewis%40clovernook.org
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 08:05:40 -0700
> From: "Becky Frankeberger" <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
> To: "'Barry Vaughn'" <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing
> List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <005201cfe3d2$7e718580$7b549080$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Barry, tears are rolling down my cheeks. I am so sorry. I have never heard
> of this kind of serious attack on a child by a guide dog. So terribly sorry.
> Praying for you and your family, as you are right this affects everyone in
> your family your friends, but most especially you, warm hugs.
>
> Becky and Jake folding his paws in prayer
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:10 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>
> Please pray for me and my family.
>
> Barry and guide Jake
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/b.butterfly%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:02:28 -0700
> From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
> To: "Barry Vaughn" <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <FA5A5C8268B44A16965E7C8F1E36ECE4 at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Yikes Barry! Not good. Not being there to see what happened right before
> Jake attacked the pet dog and then the child, hard to tell what's going on.
> Youo are right in not working him and he be in quarentine.
>
> I once knew a woman who had a guide that suddenly started snapping at people
> and it turned out the dog had a brain tumor and was put down. Very sad.
>
> Very sad that this has happened with your guide. I woould apply for a new
> dog. Frankly, you will always have that wondering in the back of your mind
> while out in public if he would suddenly attack someone.
>
> You are in my thoughts. I can't imagine how horrible this is for you.
>
> Lyn
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Vaughn via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:10 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my
>> guide
>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened.
>> My
>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school
>> and
>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is
>> picking
>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:13:03 -0400
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "'Barry Vaughn'" <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing
> List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <042701cfe3db$e7c00da0$b74028e0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was
> the aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this? You got
> rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both of you
> allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put your
> dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to the nearest
> emergency vet and been put down last night. I can understand maybe keeping
> your dog, but I can't understand your son's just allowing you to get rid of
> his dog, and I don't understand either of you allowing the baby in close
> proximity with your dog.
> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which leads
> me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>
> Please pray for me and my family.
>
> Barry and guide Jake
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:16:46 -0400
> From: Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
> To: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <797DABF4-6C22-4B07-9F71-1235582BFF3E at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened, what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he made will not help the situation.
>
> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas
> Vice President, Ohio Association of blind students
> Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
> "The wind of Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was
>> the aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this? You got
>> rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both of you
>> allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put your
>> dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to the nearest
>> emergency vet and been put down last night. I can understand maybe keeping
>> your dog, but I can't understand your son's just allowing you to get rid of
>> his dog, and I don't understand either of you allowing the baby in close
>> proximity with your dog.
>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which leads
>> me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:34:01 -0400
> From: Abigail Bolling <violingirl30794 at gmail.com>
> To: Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <74A77DFD-5E80-4D41-A01A-23EC530B459D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Aleeha, I agree wholeheartedly! This family just went through a terrible ordeal, and while your questions and concerns may be valid, you really need to be careful with the word choices do use.
> Attacking Barry through email about what went wrong and how things could have been done it should have been done and possibly would have been done is not going to make the situation any easier or make it go away.
>
>
> Abigail Bolling
> Wright State University: Social Work
>
> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let the music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:16 PM, Aleeha Dudley via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened, what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he made will not help the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas
>> Vice President, Ohio Association of blind students
>> Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
>> "The wind of Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was
>>> the aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this? You got
>>> rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both of you
>>> allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put your
>>> dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to the nearest
>>> emergency vet and been put down last night. I can understand maybe keeping
>>> your dog, but I can't understand your son's just allowing you to get rid of
>>> his dog, and I don't understand either of you allowing the baby in close
>>> proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which leads
>>> me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
>>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
>>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
>>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
>>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/violingirl30794%40gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:39:05 -0400
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "'Aleeha Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>, "'NAGDU Mailing
> List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <043c01cfe3df$8b679fb0$a236df10$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
> few things differently.
> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't mine.
> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he was
> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Cc: Barry Vaughn
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the
> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going
> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
> made will not help the situation.
>
> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of
> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which
> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>> Vaughn via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>> gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:49:00 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'Barry Vaughn'" <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing
> List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <011b01cfe3e0$eda5f6d0$c8f1e470$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Barry, how very sad. Sometimes dogs do these kinds of things. I knew someone
> who had a dog and it suddenly turned on her husband. I suspect something
> might have been wrong with the dog. You must just concentrate on recovering
> from the shock and the trauma of the whole event. Just because a dog is a
> guide doesn't mean this sort of thing can't happen. I hope if you want to
> have a guide dog you will be able to apply for a new dog soon.
>
> Regards and best wishes,
> Cindy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 9:10 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>
> Please pray for me and my family.
>
> Barry and guide Jake
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:01:44 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'Star Gazer'" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>, "'NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <011f01cfe3e2$b5ccddd0$21669970$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am not the moderator of this list of course, but Rebecca, I think it is
> important that we not just go on about what should have been done. These
> people are in pain, a baby was hurt, we don't know what "got rid of the dog"
> means, and on and on. We need to show compassion on this list when our
> fellow guide dog users are in pain. Please do that.
>
> Cindy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:39 AM
> To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
> few things differently.
> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't mine.
> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he was
> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Cc: Barry Vaughn
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the
> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going
> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
> made will not help the situation.
>
> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of
> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which
> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>> Vaughn via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>> gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:59:01 -0600
> From: Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <0D055DBB-EDC4-41D6-86B2-4DD37044AA86 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
> There are so many unanswerd questions before any of us can really give any sort of feedback.
>
> 1. Has the dog ben around the grandson before, or was this just an, out of the blue, attack?
> 2. Might the grandson have done something to provoke the dog without the handler's knowledge?
> 3. What was the relationship between the dog and handler? Did the dog feel as if the terrritory was "his", rather than the other dog or child's?
> 4. How old is the dog?
> 5. Did this dog have a history of violence with dogs on the job or just at home?
> 6. this kind of goes back to question 1, but has the dog had any history of being around children?
>
> Until those question are answered, we may never know why the dog attacked another dog, and then a child.
>
> That being said, I'd like to comment on a few things mentiond here.
>
> First, just because a dog has a history of violence with other dogs does not mean he will have a history of violence with children. Some akitas are that way. They don't like other dogs, but put them around a child and their whole disposition changes.
>
> Second, No child should be left unsupoerfized with a dog, and I hate to say it, but being blind, you need to have a handle on your dog, or put the dog away when a toddler is nearby. You don't know what the toddler might have done to upset the dog. Some times, crying is enough. When the child is old enough to listen to your instruction, then you can, think, about giving the child and dog a little more freedom.
>
> Some dogs are okay with children crawling on them, but that's if the dog ses the children as part of their pack, and if that dog knows that that child is under the protection of the leader of such pack. And we don't know how the dog saw that child in regards to him home and his handler.
>
> I am, by no means, excusing a dog bite, but as I've stated, there's still a lot we don't know.
>
> Third, and probably the most important thing, a guide dog, is still a dog. I know we all say we know this, but when things like that happen, why is it so shocking? Dogs have attacked children in the past. The fact that it's a guide dog should have no bearing on the situation accept maybe to add more probablility that the dog, might, have been socilized with children around it's puppy raisers, and even then, some dogs just get it in their heads that this small screaming thing sounds like prey. Any animal, no matter how trained or cuddley or whatever, will bite. Dogs are predatory, and I think a lot of us forget that when their curled up at our feet or giving us kisses.
>
> This leads me to four, I don't think there would be an yharm in getting a new guide dog, but if this gentleman does, I'd recommend highly that he introduce the grandson to the guide dog.
>
> A post can be written on how to introduce dogs to children later if needed.
>
> Second, if there is a fight between a guide dog and another dog, the trainer of said guide dog needs to be notafied immediately. Dog fights put a huge step back in dog training, not to mention that you could be hurt in the process.
>
> I don't know if it's possible, and you guys from schools can answer this, but can you tell a guide dog rep the sort of people you and the dog will be exposed to? Like, could you tell the school that you have children, and could they make sure to match you with a dog who grew up around children?
>
> I think that would help a lot.
>
> Last thought, if you are scared of getting a new guide dog because you think something like this might happen again, don't do it. The dog will know that fear, and when the child is around, it could see your fear as the fear of the child rather than fear of what the guide dog might do to the child, and therefore attack the child.
>
> Those are my thoughts.
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I am not the moderator of this list of course, but Rebecca, I think it is
>> important that we not just go on about what should have been done. These
>> people are in pain, a baby was hurt, we don't know what "got rid of the dog"
>> means, and on and on. We need to show compassion on this list when our
>> fellow guide dog users are in pain. Please do that.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:39 AM
>> To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>> few things differently.
>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't mine.
>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he was
>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the
>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going
>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
>> made will not help the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of
>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which
>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:53:21 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Daryl Marie <crazymusician at shaw.ca>
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] guide Dogs' exposure to children WAS Worst day of my
> life
> Message-ID: <701496870.51469948.1412880801648.JavaMail.root at cds058>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Let me first-off say that, no matter what happened and why, Barry, I am so sorry that you are dealing with the loss of your dog, and the associated fear that you are experiencing right now.
>
> Valerie,
>
> I can't speak for all schools, but BC/AB Guide Dogs makes sure that their dogs can itneract safely with children, adults, other dogs, etc. Yes, some dogs will have dog distractions, but any show of aggression would wash them out of the program.
>
> Jenny's litter had five dogs in it, including Jenny. Four of the five dogs are working guides. The fifth was edgy around children, and it was decided to remove her from the program. No matter what, dogs will have to at the very least be socialized around children, as no matter who you are, you are likely to come in contact with children frequently. I have close friends with kids, but even when lives get busy and we don't see them much, at least once a week I have kids on the bus yelling "Doggie!" to their parents.
>
> I do agree that dogs need to be supervised around children. I have friends with small kids, and I am always surprised at how calm jenny is with them. Sure, they'll run around and chase each other, but she plays gently when she comes in contact with them. With adults she knows she can play a bit harder, but we have clearly defined boundaries with what is acceptable and whta isn't (for example, she jumps up for a toy, toy gets put away, and playtime's done; she knows exactly what she's done, goes to her bed, and much later we will initialize play).
>
> Jenny is mildly distracted by babies and small children. By distracted, she will calmly and gently take me over to any stroller on a bus, and air-sniffs if we're in proximity to a stroller in an elevator, for example. She is so calm that no one has ever complained to me about her behavior. I would, ideally, like her to ignore strollers, but in that absence, this is a sweet quirk I can tolerate.
>
> Just yesterday, a coworker who is on paternity leave brought his 11-month-old son with him to a conference call/company meeting. Jenny completely ignored the baby, even while he was crawling toward her at least three times. She wagged her tail maniacally when we met up with them in the hall, but was otherwise calm. Later, with my coworker present and both of us supervising, we slowly introduced Jenny and the baby to each other. Jenny stayed on her bed and let the baby come to her, and it was a very very sweet moment.
>
> I agree that there are no easy answers to this particular situation. We can ask the questions, some of which may have answers... but at this point, all have suffered: Barry, the dog, the little boy, his parent(s), any other family members who are close to those involved. My heart breaks for them on many levels.
>
> Daryl
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Valerie Gibson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 11:59:01 -0600 (MDT)
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Hi,
>
> There are so many unanswerd questions before any of us can really give any sort of feedback.
>
> 1. Has the dog ben around the grandson before, or was this just an, out of the blue, attack?
> 2. Might the grandson have done something to provoke the dog without the handler's knowledge?
> 3. What was the relationship between the dog and handler? Did the dog feel as if the terrritory was "his", rather than the other dog or child's?
> 4. How old is the dog?
> 5. Did this dog have a history of violence with dogs on the job or just at home?
> 6. this kind of goes back to question 1, but has the dog had any history of being around children?
>
> Until those question are answered, we may never know why the dog attacked another dog, and then a child.
>
> That being said, I'd like to comment on a few things mentiond here.
>
> First, just because a dog has a history of violence with other dogs does not mean he will have a history of violence with children. Some akitas are that way. They don't like other dogs, but put them around a child and their whole disposition changes.
>
> Second, No child should be left unsupoerfized with a dog, and I hate to say it, but being blind, you need to have a handle on your dog, or put the dog away when a toddler is nearby. You don't know what the toddler might have done to upset the dog. Some times, crying is enough. When the child is old enough to listen to your instruction, then you can, think, about giving the child and dog a little more freedom.
>
> Some dogs are okay with children crawling on them, but that's if the dog ses the children as part of their pack, and if that dog knows that that child is under the protection of the leader of such pack. And we don't know how the dog saw that child in regards to him home and his handler.
>
> I am, by no means, excusing a dog bite, but as I've stated, there's still a lot we don't know.
>
> Third, and probably the most important thing, a guide dog, is still a dog. I know we all say we know this, but when things like that happen, why is it so shocking? Dogs have attacked children in the past. The fact that it's a guide dog should have no bearing on the situation accept maybe to add more probablility that the dog, might, have been socilized with children around it's puppy raisers, and even then, some dogs just get it in their heads that this small screaming thing sounds like prey. Any animal, no matter how trained or cuddley or whatever, will bite. Dogs are predatory, and I think a lot of us forget that when their curled up at our feet or giving us kisses.
>
> This leads me to four, I don't think there would be an yharm in getting a new guide dog, but if this gentleman does, I'd recommend highly that he introduce the grandson to the guide dog.
>
> A post can be written on how to introduce dogs to children later if needed.
>
> Second, if there is a fight between a guide dog and another dog, the trainer of said guide dog needs to be notafied immediately. Dog fights put a huge step back in dog training, not to mention that you could be hurt in the process.
>
> I don't know if it's possible, and you guys from schools can answer this, but can you tell a guide dog rep the sort of people you and the dog will be exposed to? Like, could you tell the school that you have children, and could they make sure to match you with a dog who grew up around children?
>
> I think that would help a lot.
>
> Last thought, if you are scared of getting a new guide dog because you think something like this might happen again, don't do it. The dog will know that fear, and when the child is around, it could see your fear as the fear of the child rather than fear of what the guide dog might do to the child, and therefore attack the child.
>
> Those are my thoughts.
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I am not the moderator of this list of course, but Rebecca, I think it is
>> important that we not just go on about what should have been done. These
>> people are in pain, a baby was hurt, we don't know what "got rid of the dog"
>> means, and on and on. We need to show compassion on this list when our
>> fellow guide dog users are in pain. Please do that.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:39 AM
>> To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>> few things differently.
>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't mine.
>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he was
>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the
>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going
>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
>> made will not help the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of
>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which
>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/crazymusician%40shaw.ca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 14:56:40 -0400
> From: "Barry Vaughn" <georgia68bear at charter.net>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <ALENJIPKHODJNGNGEPDKAEGLCIAA.georgia68bear at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> To answer some of the questions Jake is 7 years old a german shepherd and
> when I say I gave the dog away who was fighting with my dog I ment I gave
> him back to my son. I took the dog originally because of his job had him
> traveling so much. Jake has always been good with children but I can not
> recall him being around one this young. Jake was not left alone with my
> grandson I was in there and my wife as well. My grandson was crawling and
> didn't even touch Jake when it happened.
>
> Barry
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:08:01 -0400
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "Barry Vaughn" <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <FC1455FB8959494996BEC9C401E00770 at tracy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi Barry.
> I'm so sorry this happened to you. How awful for you and your family.
> I'm also sorry some people on this list are happily playing the blame game.
> Some days I'm embarrassed to be associated with some of these guys.
> Sending good thoughts your way.
> Tracy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Vaughn via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 2:56 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> To answer some of the questions Jake is 7 years old a german shepherd and
>> when I say I gave the dog away who was fighting with my dog I ment I gave
>> him back to my son. I took the dog originally because of his job had him
>> traveling so much. Jake has always been good with children but I can not
>> recall him being around one this young. Jake was not left alone with my
>> grandson I was in there and my wife as well. My grandson was crawling and
>> didn't even touch Jake when it happened.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:41:08 -0700
> From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
> To: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, "'Barry
> Vaughn'" <georgia68bear at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <D5735A86ECDE4591B495208C1BE3170C at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Please don't go all gangbusters on Barry! You don't even know the backstory
> about the incident. You don't know that he probably discussed with his
> brother before getting rid of the other dog. You don't know what the
> circumstances are in regard to the baby. Many dogs who agress against other
> dogs don't always do this against humans - even baby humans.
>
> Barry has done what he needs to do and judgemental stuff like this is no
> help to him. This sort of thing is highly unusual. It is possible the dog
> had a brain tumor or some other problem is the behavior just started up
> after no problem before.
>
> I read Barry's email and he didn't provide all the little details about but
> he did do what had to be done.
>
> Barry, I hope, if the dog was put down, that you had it autopsied for cause
> for the sudden change in behavior. This kind of thing happened to a friend
> back in the 1970s and that dog was found to have had a brain tumor.
>
> Lyn
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Star Gazer via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Barry Vaughn'" <georgia68bear at charter.net>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was
>> the aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this? You
>> got
>> rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both of you
>> allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put your
>> dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to the
>> nearest
>> emergency vet and been put down last night. I can understand maybe
>> keeping
>> your dog, but I can't understand your son's just allowing you to get rid
>> of
>> his dog, and I don't understand either of you allowing the baby in close
>> proximity with your dog.
>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which leads
>> me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn
>> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my
>> guide
>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened.
>> My
>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school
>> and
>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is
>> picking
>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 12:43:51 -0700
> From: "L Gwizdak" <leg1950 at cox.net>
> To: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>, "'Aleeha
> Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <281EED4278AA4B8C8700AF0687DD2C99 at lindagwizdak>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> To me, "started attacking" would mean a new behavior and NOT an on-going
> one.
>
> Lyn
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Star Gazer via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Aleeha Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>> few things differently.
>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't
>> mine.
>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he
>> was
>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened
>> the
>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be
>> going
>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
>> made will not help the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association
>> of
>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that
>> which
>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 14:50:34 -0500
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <000401cfe3fa$4ac6b7a0$e05426e0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I just feel that the discussion about Barry's dog, except to express
> sympathy, should not be held now. I think he needs our loves and support, to
> know we are with him, and not analysis of what anything means. Later maybe
> as the pain heals he will want to say more. He has already said more. I
> would hope we do not eventually alienate Barry, and I would appreciate the
> kindly words of support that have already been uttered here. Maybe I'm being
> too conservative about this? I don't think so.
>
> Cindy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of L Gwizdak via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:44 PM
> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users; 'Aleeha Dudley'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> To me, "started attacking" would mean a new behavior and NOT an on-going
> one.
>
> Lyn
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Star Gazer via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Aleeha Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the
>
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>> few things differently.
>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't
>> mine.
>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he
>> was
>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened
>> the
>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be
>> going
>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
>> made will not help the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association
>> of
>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that
>> which
>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:55:57 -0400
> From: "Star Gazer" <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>
> To: "'Cindy Ray'" <cindyray at gmail.com>, "'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <05b401cfe3fb$0af8fce0$20eaf6a0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> To me "started attacking" means a patern of behavior. The
> patern may be new but "started attacking" means it happened more then once.
> Why nobody put the guide dog in another room or in a crate when the baby was
> present boggles my mind. On a bigger level, it sounds like Barry didn't get
> proper follow up from his school when the attacks started. That should
> concern everybody.
> Unless we know more, this doesn't sound like an accident, more like a series
> of bad choices. This matters because if the schools retain ownership, users
> like Barry have no ability to handle problems such as this.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 3:51 PM
> To: 'L Gwizdak'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> I just feel that the discussion about Barry's dog, except to express
> sympathy, should not be held now. I think he needs our loves and support, to
> know we are with him, and not analysis of what anything means. Later maybe
> as the pain heals he will want to say more. He has already said more. I
> would hope we do not eventually alienate Barry, and I would appreciate the
> kindly words of support that have already been uttered here. Maybe I'm being
> too conservative about this? I don't think so.
>
> Cindy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of L Gwizdak via
> nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:44 PM
> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users; 'Aleeha Dudley'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> To me, "started attacking" would mean a new behavior and NOT an on-going
> one.
>
> Lyn
> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Star Gazer via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'Aleeha Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the
>
> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a few things
>> differently.
>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of
>> one that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog
>> wasn't mine.
>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in
>> this case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it
>> was he was going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he
>> asked the school what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't
>> tell them. I'm also concerned with the level of support he got when
>> his dog attacked his son's dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so
>> this was an ongoing problem. It wasn't just a terrible day that came
>> out of nowhere.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users
>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic
>> happened, what's done is done, sitting here and processing why
>> everything happened the way it did will not help. The point is that a
>> dog, a guide dog, a dog that this gentleman relies on for his
>> mobility, and a dog he has developed a significant partnership with,
>> attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going through a lot of rough
>> emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he made will not help
>> the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio
>> Association of blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of
>> Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the
>>> both of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand
>>> either of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night
>>> the most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was
>>> crawling in the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in
> the face.
>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up
>>> this
>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40
>>> g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%4
>>> 0
>>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:02:13 -0400
> From: Shannon Dyer <solsticesinger at gmail.com>
> To: Barry Vaughn <georgia68bear at charter.net>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <75A32293-756E-45A0-9E4D-80B7F8BD2007 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi, Barry.
>
> I can't imagine what you and your family must be going through. This sounds like a horrible thing to have to endure.
>
> My thoughts are with you.
>
> Shannon and the Acelet
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Barry Vaughn via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 13:22:49 -0700
> From: Sharonda Greenlaw <sbgreenlaw at gmail.com>
> To: Shannon Dyer <solsticesinger at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID:
> <CA+v4FNwJfmjw5Jc28quFxQRCxYWRZUgV9H_-JTv1-sSG0SYOZA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Barry,
> I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you and to Jake. I just
> feel as I read this that something must have happened to your precious
> companion. Maybe he wasn't well. Dogs, sometimes, can't tell us or
> show us how they feel. I'm praying for you and wishing you the best.
>
> Sharonda
>
>> On 10/9/14, Shannon Dyer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi, Barry.
>>
>> I can't imagine what you and your family must be going through. This sounds
>> like a horrible thing to have to endure.
>>
>> My thoughts are with you.
>>
>> Shannon and the Acelet
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Barry Vaughn via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last
>>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my
>>> guide
>>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened.
>>> My
>>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school
>>> and
>>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is
>>> picking
>>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sbgreenlaw%40gmail.com
>
>
> --
> Sharonda Greenlaw
> President (Phoenix Chapter)
> National Federation of the Blind
> -------------
> Skype: sharonda2004
> Twitter: shari_rocks
> Facebook: facebook.com/TheSharondaWhiteGreenlaw
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 14:51:26 -0600
> From: Danielle Antoine <singingmywayin at gmail.com>
> To: Sharonda Greenlaw <sbgreenlaw at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID:
> <CAMxXqEQxF-cOxe1czYSX+sOoD1-zSTtQdTEDih0a6WFEKxuuxQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Oh Barry. this is awful! I am with you in thought and prayer. Thank
> you Aleeyha. I'm sure there will be time enough for analyzing the
> situation. I am thinking perhaps he has something goin on with his
> brain or some other type of sickness. Remember pain causes dogs and
> humans to act aggressively. Or do you remember a time when he might
> have experienced trauma of some kind? Too bad your school didn't
> recall him for evaluation. Don't beat yourself up too much about that
> just love on one another for support.
> Cindy very well put. rbeccas, you do have some good points though and
> some things to think about.
> Blessings,
> Danielle
>
>> On 10/9/14, Sharonda Greenlaw via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Barry,
>> I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you and to Jake. I just
>> feel as I read this that something must have happened to your precious
>> companion. Maybe he wasn't well. Dogs, sometimes, can't tell us or
>> show us how they feel. I'm praying for you and wishing you the best.
>>
>> Sharonda
>>
>>> On 10/9/14, Shannon Dyer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hi, Barry.
>>>
>>> I can't imagine what you and your family must be going through. This
>>> sounds
>>> like a horrible thing to have to endure.
>>>
>>> My thoughts are with you.
>>>
>>> Shannon and the Acelet
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Barry Vaughn via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>>> last
>>>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my
>>>> guide
>>>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month
>>>> my
>>>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog
>>>> and
>>>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened.
>>>> My
>>>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake
>>>> attacked
>>>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he
>>>> had
>>>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school
>>>> and
>>>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is
>>>> picking
>>>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>>
>>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>>
>>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/solsticesinger%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sbgreenlaw%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sharonda Greenlaw
>> President (Phoenix Chapter)
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> -------------
>> Skype: sharonda2004
>> Twitter: shari_rocks
>> Facebook: facebook.com/TheSharondaWhiteGreenlaw
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/singingmywayin%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:38:57 -0500
> From: Kerri Stovall <spedangel84 at gmail.com>
> To: Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <7C8E68C0-B544-4B76-B380-18089E729B1D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I agree with the majority of these comments, what this man needs is compassion and encouragement, not criticism.this makes me hesitate to post anything that I am going through because of this kind of reaction. I would want encouragement and support.I don't think anyone should be criticized about any decision made.when it comes right down to it are opinions really don't have any merit and someone else's situation unless they ask for it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I am not the moderator of this list of course, but Rebecca, I think it is
>> important that we not just go on about what should have been done. These
>> people are in pain, a baby was hurt, we don't know what "got rid of the dog"
>> means, and on and on. We need to show compassion on this list when our
>> fellow guide dog users are in pain. Please do that.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:39 AM
>> To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>> few things differently.
>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't mine.
>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he was
>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users
>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the
>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going
>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
>> made will not help the situation.
>>
>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of
>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which
>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>
>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>
>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>> protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/spedangel84%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 31
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:55:06 -0500
> From: Kerri Stovall <spedangel84 at gmail.com>
> To: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <B23F54A0-197C-4367-AEA8-5AEDB5870E5C at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Tracy I agree with you. Barry's response is exactly proving our point here. This is why we should educate instead of bashing and judging. He just answered some questions that were the complete opposite of what some folks thought it was.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Barry.
>> I'm so sorry this happened to you. How awful for you and your family.
>> I'm also sorry some people on this list are happily playing the blame game. Some days I'm embarrassed to be associated with some of these guys.
>> Sending good thoughts your way.
>> Tracy
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Vaughn via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 2:56 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> To answer some of the questions Jake is 7 years old a german shepherd and
>>> when I say I gave the dog away who was fighting with my dog I ment I gave
>>> him back to my son. I took the dog originally because of his job had him
>>> traveling so much. Jake has always been good with children but I can not
>>> recall him being around one this young. Jake was not left alone with my
>>> grandson I was in there and my wife as well. My grandson was crawling and
>>> didn't even touch Jake when it happened.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/spedangel84%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 32
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 18:10:55 -0400
> From: Emily Michael <emily.k.michael at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <084C9FC4-C790-42BE-BC3D-8E1132CB17E8 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I?m so sorry to hear about this situation, Barry. How trying for you. I will be praying for you and your family.
>
> Oddly enough, we recently had a similar situation in my family, but not with my guide. Our pet cairn terrier bit my 11-month-old nephew, and it was pretty rough. We?re not sure what happened, but we think that the baby was trying to walk and probably toppled on top of the cairn. He has never bitten anyone before, so it was a freak thing. And very emotional.
>
> Wishing you, your family, and your guide peace and strength,
> Emily
> ---
> Emily K. Michael
> emily.k.michael at gmail.com
> Blog: http://areyouseeingthis.wordpress.com/
>
> "Nowhere, Love, will world exist but within."
> - Rainer Maria Rilke
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 33
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 18:12:42 -0400
> From: "Larry D Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <7E3AEB7591F54D10B6B8B637A88D9F1A at yourec0540d030>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Amen, Cindy! I imagin he has his hands full as well as his mind! Sometimes,
> anything can happen and you just have to plug through it and go forward.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 3:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> I just feel that the discussion about Barry's dog, except to express
>> sympathy, should not be held now. I think he needs our loves and support,
>> to
>> know we are with him, and not analysis of what anything means. Later maybe
>> as the pain heals he will want to say more. He has already said more. I
>> would hope we do not eventually alienate Barry, and I would appreciate the
>> kindly words of support that have already been uttered here. Maybe I'm
>> being
>> too conservative about this? I don't think so.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of L Gwizdak via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:44 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users; 'Aleeha Dudley'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> To me, "started attacking" would mean a new behavior and NOT an on-going
>> one.
>>
>> Lyn
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is like
>> asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Star Gazer via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'Aleeha Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing
>> List,the
>>
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>>
>>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>>> few things differently.
>>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't
>>> mine.
>>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he
>>> was
>>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his
>>> son's
>>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem.
>>> It
>>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened
>>> the
>>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog
>>> that
>>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be
>>> going
>>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions
>>> he
>>> made will not help the situation.
>>>
>>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association
>>> of
>>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that
>>> which
>>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>>
>>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>>
>>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>>
>>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>>> mail.c
>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:21:19 -0700
> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'Larry D Keeler'" <lkeeler at comcast.net>, "'NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>,
> "'Cindy Ray'" <cindyray at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <B9804F91509846C398F7EB451089C95D at NicoleDell>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am very sorry to hear that this happened. Is there any type of medical
> exam that he can undergo to make sure that there is not something going on?
> Finally, before just putting him down, I wonder if there is some kind of
> organization that works with and possibly places dogs with aggression
> problems.
>
> Nicole
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Larry D Keeler
> via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 3:13 PM
> To: Cindy Ray; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
> Amen, Cindy! I imagin he has his hands full as well as his mind! Sometimes,
> anything can happen and you just have to plug through it and go forward.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Ray via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> To: "'L Gwizdak'" <leg1950 at cox.net>; "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 3:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>
>
>> I just feel that the discussion about Barry's dog, except to express
>> sympathy, should not be held now. I think he needs our loves and
>> support, to know we are with him, and not analysis of what anything
>> means. Later maybe as the pain heals he will want to say more. He has
>> already said more. I would hope we do not eventually alienate Barry,
>> and I would appreciate the kindly words of support that have already
>> been uttered here. Maybe I'm being too conservative about this? I
>> don't think so.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of L Gwizdak
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 2:44 PM
>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users; 'Aleeha Dudley'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> To me, "started attacking" would mean a new behavior and NOT an
>> on-going one.
>>
>> Lyn
>> "Asking who's the man and who's the woman in an LGBT relationship is
>> like asking which chopstick is the fork" - Unknown
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Star Gazer via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> To: "'Aleeha Dudley'" <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com>; "'NAGDU Mailing
>> List,the
>>
>> National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 9:39 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>>
>>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a few things
>>> differently.
>>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of
>>> one that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog
>>> wasn't mine.
>>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at
>>> all times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in
>>> this case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it
>>> was he was going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he
>>> asked the school what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't
>>> tell them. I'm also concerned with the level of support he got when
>>> his dog attacked his son's dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so
>>> this was an ongoing problem.
>>> It
>>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>> Dog Users
>>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic
>>> happened, what's done is done, sitting here and processing why
>>> everything happened the way it did will not help. The point is that a
>>> dog, a guide dog, a dog that this gentleman relies on for his
>>> mobility, and a dog he has developed a significant partnership with,
>>> attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going through a lot of rough
>>> emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he made will not
>>> help the situation.
>>>
>>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio
>>> Association of blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of
>>> Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy
>>>> the same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the
>>>> both of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of
> aggression.
>>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone
>>>> to the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand
>>>> either of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>>
>>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide
>>>> these last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog.
>>>> At first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together
>>>> and such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So
>>>> I got rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last
>>>> night the most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was
>>>> crawling in the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in
> the face.
>>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up
>>>> this
>>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>>
>>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>>
>>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%4
>>>> 0g
>>>> mail.c
>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%
>>>> 40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leg1950%40cox.net
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lkeeler%40comcast.n
>> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 35
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 18:22:16 -0400
> From: Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: Kerri Stovall <spedangel84 at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <32176D62-44A3-4057-8C1E-C58AF13851C5 at brannan.name>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I?d say that by and large, we have a great community who is caring and compassionate. I wouldn?t let one or two people who apparently have it all figured out (except the compassion part) stop you from calling upon the rest of us. That?s why God invented Email filters, I suppose.
>
> Barry, I?m so sorry about this, it must be a very difficult and emotionally draining time for you right now. Please know that we?re all here to offer what support we can through this.
>
> ?
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Kerri Stovall via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with the majority of these comments, what this man needs is compassion and encouragement, not criticism.this makes me hesitate to post anything that I am going through because of this kind of reaction. I would want encouragement and support.I don't think anyone should be criticized about any decision made.when it comes right down to it are opinions really don't have any merit and someone else's situation unless they ask for it.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am not the moderator of this list of course, but Rebecca, I think it is
>>> important that we not just go on about what should have been done. These
>>> people are in pain, a baby was hurt, we don't know what "got rid of the dog"
>>> means, and on and on. We need to show compassion on this list when our
>>> fellow guide dog users are in pain. Please do that.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
>>> nagdu
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:39 AM
>>> To: 'Aleeha Dudley'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>>> Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> It won't, though if it had been me, I'd have done a
>>> few things differently.
>>> First, I'd not "get rid" of a dog that wasn't aggressive in favor of one
>>> that was. I especially wouldn't do it if the nonaggressive dog wasn't mine.
>>> I might keep both dogs assuming that I could keep them separate at all
>>> times. I'd also never let the aggressive dog near a baby.
>>> All this being said, I do wonder if school ownership hurt Barry in this
>>> case. If the dog was legally his, he could have done whatever it was he was
>>> going to do without school input. I'm concerned that he asked the school
>>> what to do after his grandson was mauled, he didn't tell them. I'm also
>>> concerned with the level of support he got when his dog attacked his son's
>>> dog. Barry mentions "started attacking" so this was an ongoing problem. It
>>> wasn't just a terrible day that came out of nowhere.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Aleeha Dudley [mailto:blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:17 PM
>>> To: Star Gazer; NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users
>>> Cc: Barry Vaughn
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>
>>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened,
>>> what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the
>>> way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that
>>> this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a
>>> significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going
>>> through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he
>>> made will not help the situation.
>>>
>>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas Vice President, Ohio Association of
>>> blind students Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com "The wind of Heaven is that which
>>> blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was the
>>>> aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this?
>>>> You got rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both
>>>> of you allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put
>>>> your dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to
>>>> the nearest emergency vet and been put down last night. I can
>>>> understand maybe keeping your dog, but I can't understand your son's
>>>> just allowing you to get rid of his dog, and I don't understand either
>>>> of you allowing the baby in close proximity with your dog.
>>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which
>>>> leads me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry
>>>> Vaughn via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>>
>>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these
>>>> last few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At
>>>> first my guide and my sons dog got along great playing together and
>>>> such. Last month my guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got
>>>> rid of the other dog and everything settled down. Then last night the
>>>> most awful thing happened. My ten month old grandsong was crawling in
>>>> the living room and Jake attacked him biting him real bad in the face.
>>>> The bites missed the eye but he had two real bad wounds on the
>>>> forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and they recommended
>>>> that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking him up this
>>> morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>>
>>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>>
>>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40g
>>>> mail.c
>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 36
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 15:31:24 -0700
> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'Raven Tolliver'" <ravend729 at gmail.com>, "'NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>,
> "'Vivianna'" <irishana at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some people aren't very bright ... :)
> Message-ID: <9DD77AC502414CAABC79EFF705C8E885 at NicoleDell>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Vivianna,
>
> I respect your opinion; however, part of expressing an opinion that
> is for one thing and against another is acknowledging and understanding the
> part which you are against in its entirety and not just the negative
> instances that did not work. You remind me of the media; for some subjects,
> all that you talk about and focus on are the bad stuff. Are there instances
> where food reward does not work? Yes, especially if the dog either is not
> interested in food or gets so excited that the dog misses the point. Do I
> use food reward? Yes. Do I use it all of the time? No. Does Lexia sometimes
> look at me like "Okay, I should get a treat for that?". Yes. Do I give it to
> her? Sometimes if it has been a hard day or she has done something really
> well, but definitely not all of the time. Do I use other forms of rewards?
> Yes, I often pat her on the head or have a little party. Can food rewards go
> wrong? Yes. Like Raven said, schools sometimes do not teach people how to
> start backing off of the rewards, so it can be a slippery slope. However,
> just because a person does not know how to use a technique correctly does
> not mean that that technique is ineffective. And, finally, yes, it might
> sound silly to teach your dog not to go after food using food, but, for some
> dogs, if a high enough reward can be found, it works.
>
> Nicole and Lexia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven Tolliver
> via nagdu
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 7:25 AM
> To: Vivianna; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Some people aren't very bright ... :)
>
> An aspect of clicker training, or positive reinforcement training is using
> multiple reinforcers. Food is not the only reinforcer. It really depends on
> the dog and the situation. Other rewards can be play, sniffing, digging,
> marking, petting/scratching, or verbal praise, just to name a few. That list
> is not exhaustive by any means. I think most of the schools that use food
> rewards are (a) new to positive reinforcement training, and (b) believe that
> food is the quickest, most convenient, and most effective reward. While it
> is quick and convenient, it is not always practical. As others have
> mentioned, food is highly distracting to some dogs to the point that it
> hinders their work. Also, some schools might not teach or talk the handler
> through phasing out the treats. This is something many people struggle with,
> but it must be done. You don't want to eternally rely on food, or any reward
> for that matter, to get a behavior, or a behavior well-performed. You want
> to train the dog so that eventually, an occasional reward will be enough to
> keep the behavior coming, even if the reward is not a primary reinforcer.
> It is great to incorporate play as a reward with any behavior that you want
> to improve with your dog. It's best to just know your own dog, and do what
> works most effectively and communicates what you want. For some dogs, food
> is more distracting, for others, play is highly distracting. It's important
> to not adhere to the assembly-line training approach that some schools seem
> to have.
>
>
>> On 10/9/14, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I completely agree.
>> it just does not make sense to try and train your dog to refuse food
>> by giving him food.
>> i want my dog to work for praise. and, she does.
>> so many folks these days are all on the band wagon of food rewards.
>> probably, in a couple years, there will be some other dog training fad.
>> i'll never forget the story of a blind woman who ran out of treats for
>> her guide dog (GDB) in the mall of america. that dog refused to work
>> for her without them. and, that place is absolutely huge.
>> for that reason, as well as the dog's complete fixation on food, that
>> dog was returned to the school.
>> i am traditional training all the way.
>> Vivianna
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 7:38 AM, debby phillips via nagdu
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark, I applaud you for not doing the "food fad thing". Finding
>>> something else that is a motivator for our dogs is awesome! I think
>>> one reason we tend to use food as a reward is our own use of food or
>>> drink as a reward for ourselves. (This is just my opinion). But
>>> think about this. We have a great day at work, get a raise, or
>>> whatever. Often we go out to dinner to celebrate. Or we have a bad
>>> day at work, and we head for the nearest vending machine for that
>>> candy bar. Yes, food is quick, and effective, but I for one don't want
> to encourage that food drive too much. Thanks
>>> for a good idea, Mark. Peace, Debby and NEENA who loves to play tug
>>> and toss the KONG.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/irishana%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
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>> om
>
>
> --
> Raven
> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
> http://dogtorj.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
> m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 37
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 20:34:34 -0400
> From: Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> To: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <58A380B5-FFAB-4C5C-BDA0-A385F630EB98 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Rebecca,
> This is under no circumstances behavior I will allow on the NAGDU list. Absolutely disrespectful, mean, and accusatory. No Way! And to think there were several emails of the same nature that have followed this one. You WILL be getting an email from me, privately off the list. You did not have all of the facts, nor did Barry give all of the facts, you asked valid questions, but in a matter in which is not acceptable. Barry does not need criticism, disrespect, meanness, and to be accused, nor did he deserve such treatment.
>
> Our Nagdu list is compassionate and respectful to people in times of need and tragedy. That is what all list members should be giving to Barry and everyone else. I am posting this to the list, so that this be a warning to all.
> Thank you!
>
> Marsha drenth
> email: marsha.drenth at gmail.com
> Sent with my IPhone
> Please note that this email communication has been sent using my iPhone. As such, I may have used dictation and had made attempts to mitigate errors. Please do not be hesitant to ask for clarification as necessary.
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was
>> the aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this? You got
>> rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both of you
>> allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put your
>> dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to the nearest
>> emergency vet and been put down last night. I can understand maybe keeping
>> your dog, but I can't understand your son's just allowing you to get rid of
>> his dog, and I don't understand either of you allowing the baby in close
>> proximity with your dog.
>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which leads
>> me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>
>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>
>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>
>> Barry and guide Jake
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 38
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 20:42:58 -0400
> From: Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
> To: Abigail Bolling <violingirl30794 at gmail.com>, "NAGDU Mailing List,
> the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
> Message-ID: <0EA563D0-2494-4D6B-8CCD-AAEE0B932A56 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Abigail,
> Please make sure that you know who an email is from before accusing him or her of criticizing others. It was actually another list member who did the criticizing.
> This is a very very very good example of why list members, must put their names and informatiojn at the end of every list post. Although I know Aleeha did do this, we should ALWAYS, for screen readers this word is in all caps, read to the end of a message before jumping to conclusions.
>
> PS: Abigail, sorry this was a warning to all, not just you. :)
>
> Marsha drenth
> email: marsha.drenth at gmail.com
> Sent with my IPhone
> Please note that this email communication has been sent using my iPhone. As such, I may have used dictation and had made attempts to mitigate errors. Please do not be hesitant to ask for clarification as necessary.
>
>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Abigail Bolling via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Aleeha, I agree wholeheartedly! This family just went through a terrible ordeal, and while your questions and concerns may be valid, you really need to be careful with the word choices do use.
>> Attacking Barry through email about what went wrong and how things could have been done it should have been done and possibly would have been done is not going to make the situation any easier or make it go away.
>>
>>
>> Abigail Bolling
>> Wright State University: Social Work
>>
>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let the music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:16 PM, Aleeha Dudley via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Let's not play the blame game here. Something horribly tragic happened, what's done is done, sitting here and processing why everything happened the way it did will not help. The point is that a dog, a guide dog, a dog that this gentleman relies on for his mobility, and a dog he has developed a significant partnership with, attacked his own grandson. He'sgot to be going through a lot of rough emotions right now. Yelling at him for decisions he made will not help the situation.
>>>
>>> Aleeha Dudley and seeing eye dog Dallas
>>> Vice President, Ohio Association of blind students
>>> Blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com
>>> "The wind of Heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears." Arabian proverb
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Oct 9, 2014, at 12:13 PM, Star Gazer via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why did you get rid of the other dog when yours was
>>>> the aggressor? And, why did you let your dog and your grandson occupy the
>>>> same space? And, last but not least, where was your son in all this? You got
>>>> rid of *his* dog without any input from him, and then the both of you
>>>> allowed a baby near a dog with a known history of aggression.
>>>> At the risk of piling on, you didn't tell your school that you'd put your
>>>> dog down, you asked. Had it been me, that dog would have gone to the nearest
>>>> emergency vet and been put down last night. I can understand maybe keeping
>>>> your dog, but I can't understand your son's just allowing you to get rid of
>>>> his dog, and I don't understand either of you allowing the baby in close
>>>> proximity with your dog.
>>>> I don't understand where the papa bear instincts were on this, which leads
>>>> me to wonder if your school has ownership of your dog?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Barry Vaughn via
>>>> nagdu
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 9, 2014 10:10 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Worst day of my life
>>>>
>>>> Let me catch you up to spped on what has happened with my guide these last
>>>> few months. Back in April I started keeping my sons dog. At first my guide
>>>> and my sons dog got along great playing together and such. Last month my
>>>> guide started attacking the other dog.. So I got rid of the other dog and
>>>> everything settled down. Then last night the most awful thing happened. My
>>>> ten month old grandsong was crawling in the living room and Jake attacked
>>>> him biting him real bad in the face. The bites missed the eye but he had
>>>> two real bad wounds on the forehead and jaw. I just talked to my school and
>>>> they recommended that I put him down. The county animal shelter is picking
>>>> him up this morning for a ten day quarrentine.
>>>>
>>>> Please pray for me and my family.
>>>>
>>>> Barry and guide Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pickrellrebecca%40gmail.c
>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/violingirl30794%40gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.com
>
>
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> Subject: Digest Footer
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