[nagdu] Fw: [nfbmi-talk] rights of puppy raisers case in pa

Nicole Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Tue Sep 2 00:30:31 UTC 2014

I definitely agree that the ADA does not cover service dogs in training.
However, there seems to be a disconnect as how to get from point A to point
B. You start with a puppy and are supposed to somehow turn it into a well
behaved service dog, a service dog that businesses will not ask to leave.
How are you supposed to do that if you cannot take the puppy places? Any
responsible owner trainer or puppy raiser should be able to recognize when a
puppy is or is not ready to go certain places and adjust accordingly. And,
yes, JMHO, a puppy raiser is a trainer. No, to the best of my knowledge,
most puppy raisers do not do any guide work training, but they are training
a dog in obedience and how to work in public, which are just as essential
for most service dogs as the service work as a service dog, for most people,
is not much good if he/she dose not know how to behave in public. I think
the appropriate response is to have a law that allows service dogs in
training to go places. Of course, it would still allow business to ask the
person to remove the dog if the dog was causing a disturbance. And, yes,
there are certain circumstances that the ADA covers that probably would not
be covered by such a law, or not to the same degree. For example, if a puppy
raiser was admitted to the hospital for some reason, he/she most likely
would not take the puppy along but rather have the puppy stay with another
puppy raiser in the area. This would be different for an owner trainer.
Finally, JMHO, the real problem gets back to the route of most access
problems. People think, "It is a dog; therefore, it is going to do x." Fill
in the blank with whatever negative accusation that you want, which is
usually made worse by misbehaving fake service dogs. Businesses usually
don't know that they can ask a person to remove a misbehaving service dog.
And I thought that it was innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until
proven innocent.

Nicole and Lexia

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
via nagdu
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 9:48 AM
To: 'William Vandervest'; 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [nfbmi-talk] rights of puppy raisers case in pa


	The writer of this message is very mistaken. The ADA does not
protect the rights of a person training a service dog; it only protects a
disabled individual'ss right to be accompanied by a trained service dog to
public entities and private entities that provide public acommodations. By
definition, a dog in training is not a service dog and, even if the
individual training the dog is disabled - an essential element for
protection under the ADA - if the dog is not "trained to do work or perform
tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability" it is not a service

	Now, there may be a state law that affords the rights of access to
those training service dogs, since a state may make a law that offers
greater protections than federal law. The key here would be how the state
law is worded as to whether or not a puppy raiser would would be considered
a trainer. 

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of William
Vandervest via nagdu
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 12:53 AM
To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] Fw: [nfbmi-talk] rights of puppy raisers case in pa

There are none so blind as those who will not see

William and Leader Dog Lynard

timelord09 at att.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe harcz Comcast via nfbmi-talk" <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
To: <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 9:53 AM
Subject: [nfbmi-talk] rights of puppy raisers case in pa

This is all I know, but under the ADA puppy raisers for guide dog schools do

have the same rights of access to public entities as guide dog users 
themselves. Of course, they always have the same responsabilities as well. 
As noted prior when I voted a few weeks ago one of the polling place workers

had a "Leader dog" puppy at the public school where we voted. It was on its 
first day in public, being six weeks, not six months old. He was quite well 
behaved and groomed and mostly slepted by the way.

What is disturbing in this case is that this is a public library at issue. 
Public entities should know better, but given the discrimination by BSBP 
against all blind folks here I'm not surprised at the discrimination by 
public actors.

Haverford library, trainer, reach settlement over guide dog

Published: Thursday, August 14, 2014

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By Lois Puglionesi


HAVERFORD TWP.--A Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission public hearing 
over allegations that the Haverford Township Free Library discriminated 

puppy raiser Deborah Rosan adjourned quickly Tuesday, with an announcement 
that the parties had reached a tentative settlement agreement.

Rosan's attorney Lawrence Coburn said both parties hope to sign off on a 
consent order agreeing that puppy raisers working with organizations that 

and raise puppies to serve as guide/support dogs for individuals with 
disabilities will be deemed handlers/trainers of support animals, terms used

in Section

5(i)(1) of the Pennsylvania Human Relations Act.

Additional terms provide that such puppies must be at least six months old. 
And, if the puppy causes a disturbance in a public accommodation, the puppy

raiser must remove the dog at once.

Coburn said the settlement would include another confidential document and a

letter of apology signed by Rosan.


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