[nagdu] vet advice was weight question

Julie J. julielj at neb.rr.com
Sat Sep 13 13:36:43 UTC 2014 

Raven,

Once upon a time I attended college to be a veterinary technician.  This was 
back in the early 90's and things may have changed, but I rather doubt it. 
The education we received regarding dog and cat nutrition was provided by 
the staff veterinarians.  They truly believed what they were teaching, 
holding it up as the gospel truth of dog nutrition.  I was paying them to 
teach me this stuff and so I believed them.

I had an entire class on small animal nutrition.  The curriculum was 
provided for free from Science Diet.  Our workbooks, the videos, the 
overhead projector slides (this was before power point) all of it.  Science 
Diet also provided all the food for the kennel animals at the school for 
free.  Of course all the materials showed how wonderful Science Diet was and 
gave you information to support that idea.

You have to admit, it's a pretty sweet marketing strategy.  It is 
undoubtedly why most vets carry Science Diet and recommend it to their 
clients.  Or if not Science diet something similar.

Julie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 1:48 AM
To: The Pawpower Pack ; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] weight question

Unfortunately, I haven't found a veterinarian that I can trust,
especially when it comes to carnivore nutrition. Most veterinarians
know nothing about carnivore nutrition, and are not even required to
receive any training or take courses in it. As far as I'm concerned, I
am just as, if not more qualified to give nutrition advice than most
conventional vets. In my book, any professional who recommends
processed foods over fresh foods for any animal is undereducated or
highly misinformed. What kind of sense does it make to say that dead,
nutrient-depleted food is better than live, nutrient-dense food? I
don't care how much school anyone has been through, if they hold that
opinion, then I'm not putting my dog's health in their hands, which
leads me to my next point.
People should make health decisions for their dogs external of what
vets say. Certainly consider it, but don't make a decision solely
based on what vets do and say. At the end of the day, your dog's
health is your responsibility only, and if anything goes wrong, it is
not because of what a vet said, but due to a decision on your part. If
you research, research, research, and make an educated decision,
you're doing your best. Consulting with a vet means nothing in most
cases, because (a) they don't give you all the facts; (b) they won't
give you all the facts; and (c) they can't give you all the facts.
Those people have been forced to study for hours on end, have had
mantras pounded into their brains, and quizzed to exhaustion until
they believe the nonsense that propagates the unhealth, imbalance, and
diseased conditions of dogs worldwide. They are taught to obey and
practice only what they learn in school, and they believe that they
are God in the sense that what they know is law, that they know
everything, and that anything that contradicts their backward
knowledge is wrong, unhealthy, and harmful. Most of them give out
health advice that will keep clients coming back frequently to fund
their business, rather than revealing the secrets that keep you and
your pet away from their money-seeking cesspools.
Also, most vets are anti-raw for a host of reasons that are a load of
nonsense. If you're going to consult with a vet, make sure that your
vet is a holistic veterinarian or a veterinary naturopath. And also
make sure that you know what a proper raw diet is if you're
considering it for your dog. There are still some holistic vets who
advise feeding fruits, veggies, starches, and other biologically
inappropriate stuff.
As you can tell, I have no trust in conventional veterinarians. My dog
and I have been burned by the pet unhealth industry, the pet junk food
industry, and the pet poison industry. If I had listened to the vet I
used to take my dog to, I would have never kept him on prey-model raw,
and he would still be in a state of unhealth. Educate yourself, do not
just blindly listen to the advice of anyone, whether they have a
degree or not. Your dog's health holds more proof and truth than
anyone's educational background.

On 9/12/14, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I have fed a raw diet for the last 14 years.  I travel an insane amount, 
> and
> I feed raw on the road, so it can be done. I know that there are a lot of
> freeze dried food I could feed but two of my dogs died from eating what I
> thought were healthy treats, instead they were made in China and killed 
> one
> dog and forced the retirement of the other.  So unless I'm dead or in
> prison, I don't think I can trust any petfood company ever again.
> I have a small cooler bag meaneat for keeping baby bottles cool. I keep it
> in my backpack.  When I stay in hotels, I either ask for a fridge--  
> because I
> take meds that need refridgeration, which also works for the dog's food, 
> or
> I bring a little bigger sized cooler-- about the size of a small to med 
> sized
> box.  I then keep it full of ice.
> I actually had to feed my dog in the middle of my gate at LAX, last month
> while waiting for my flight.  I'm leaving for San Fransisco Sunday and 
> will
> hit a grocery after I arrive for chicken.
> So it can be done, you just have to be inventive! lol
>  Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 3:25 PM, Valerie Gibson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm kind of jumping in on the tail end of the conversation, it seems.
>>
>> I usually don't like making food choices without consulting with a vet,
>> and I try not to make food choices for others without telling them to
>> first consult with their vet.
>>
>> However...
>>
>> I'm glad to see someone else who's against the kibble crap that's being
>> fed to dogs nowadays.
>>
>> My last akita was one that was on raw food.  He ate two pounds of bravo
>> daily.  He had a lot of skin problems and a thyroid problem, and when
>> switched, you could definitely tell a chnage in health.
>>
>> Because Zion has a malobsorbtion problem, and we're stil trying to figure
>> out what exactly is giving him the problem, I have not switched him to a
>> raw food.
>>
>> The only problem with raw that I can see with a guide dog is that, if
>> youre out and about, you can't just whip out the food and feed him 
>> because
>> it needs to stay frozen.
>>
>> My vet recommended Honest kitchen to me because all of the ingredients 
>> are
>> organic and there's no processed crap in it as with kibble.  Even if I am
>> out and about, I'm sure I can find some hot water to make it.
>>
>> Grandma lucy's is another good food, and I believe it might fit most
>> budgets. Understand though that when you're looking at food like this, 
>> you
>> won't findfood that's as cheap as kibble, or i should say, you won't find
>> good food like this that's as cheap as kibble.  I compare raw/freeze 
>> dried
>> and kibble to stores like whole foods verses walmart.
>>
>> Four cups of kibble is way too much for dogs that are in the 60ish 
>> pounds,
>> and don't plan to grow.  I feed my dog four cups of food a day, and when
>> we've walked a lot, he eats about five or sometimes six.  But he's 83
>> pounds on last check and still growing.
>> In my oppinion, all dogs should get check out by a vet at least every
>> year, even if you dont plan on getting them yearly vacsinations.  I guess
>> I can't talk since my vet is super easy to get to, and I'm sure if i just
>> wanted to go down there and weigh my dog, I could.  Feeling your dog's 
>> rib
>> cage as most people have said is a good way to tell your dog's weight, 
>> and
>> that's actually the way that is recommmended even to sighted people by
>> trainers and vets.
>>
>> On that note, check with your vet just to make sure it's not a thyroid
>> problem or some medical health issue.  You want to be careful with foods
>> that are high in protein because some dogs can't handle it. If that's the
>> route you want to go, make the switch very gradually so that after a 
>> week,
>> two max, your dog has made a full switch and no sooner.  If, after 2
>> weeks, your dog is having irritable digestion, the  food may be too high
>> in protein.
>>
>> Never underestimate the power of breeders.  Talk with fellow owners of
>> your dog breed and even from breeders of said dog breed.  Breeders, if
>> they're good, often times have a wealth of informaton reguarding food to
>> feed your dog.  They have to if they want good litters.
>>
>> Good luck.
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, Raven Tolliver via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Abby,
>>> You know how I feel about dog food, as I'm sure most listers do. Of
>>> course, I think it's time to switch your girl's food. You may not be
>>> comfortable with going prey-model raw, but freeze-dried, air dried,
>>> and dehydrated foods would serve your dog better than the kibble. I'm
>>> guessing your girl is under 70 lbs, and that you feed nearly 4 cups
>>> because she is active. If I'm right, I highly recommend feeding her
>>> something more nutrient-rich and high in protein. Even switching to
>>> Great Life would be better than plain processed kibble from any other
>>> company.
>>> The best freeze-dried formulas come from Canine Naturals, but they are
>>> not the most affordable for everyone. More affordable freeze-dried
>>> brands are Grandma Lucy's, Stella and Chewys, and Sojo's Complete.
>>> Onlynaturalpet.com, as well as chewy.com and petflow.com sell these
>>> foods. For sure, feeding instructions for these brands can be found on
>>> the OnlyNaturalPet site. The Honest Kitchen is a brand of dehydrated
>>> dog food. I don't know any brands of air-dried food, but
>>> onlynaturalpet.com sells it. If you need any help making your
>>> decision, feel free to email me at Ravend729 at gmail.com.
>>>
>>> Concerning the weight question, what is a labrador harness? I don't
>>> understand why there would be a difference between a harness for a
>>> labrador and a for a golden. Really, the harness should fit the dog's
>>> body shape.
>>> And just because the dog is 5 lbs above what he weighed at the school
>>> does not mean he is overweight. I was told my dog's target weight was
>>> 66 lbs, which is at the lower end of the weight range for male
>>> goldens. That was 2 years ago, and now the Golden Guy is a very fit 72
>>> lbs. There is no extra weight on this boy anywhere. The dogs are
>>> certainly not done growing when we receive them, even if they are
>>> 2-years-old, as my dog was. They still fill out in the chest area
>>> around 3-4 years, and thus will need adjustment of the harness strap.
>>> They spew bs at the schools about not needing to adjust the harness
>>> strap if your dog is an adult, but that's a load.
>>> Also, a couple of my classmates and I have all switched our dogs to
>>> raw, and we've all found that our raw-fed dogs exceed the target
>>> weights prescribed by the school. None of our dogs are overweight,
>>> they are all well-exercised, and very lean and muscular due to their
>>> diets. So looking at my dog's medical chart, you would think he is 6
>>> lbs overweight, but if you examine his body, you will see he is very
>>> fit.
>>> All this is to say, I would not put stock in the numbers, I would put
>>> stock in how the dog looks. There should be a thin layer of fat over
>>> the ribcage, and the belly should be tucked up to form a definite
>>> waistline. If you can't feel the dog's ribs, especially the last few
>>> near the belly, the dog is probably overweight. If the dog's belly is
>>> not significantly more tucked in than the chest, or if you notice the
>>> dog is more round, chances are, the dog is overweight.
>>>
>>>> On 9/11/14, Nicole Torcolini via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> What formula of Diamond Natural  are you using?
>>>>
>>>>    For your friend, it really depends. Your friend should know to tell
>>>> if the dog is overweight using the methods described in this thread.
>>>> Dogs
>>>> go
>>>> through phases, and they are by no means done growing when we receive
>>>> them.
>>>> A dog may be slightly overweight at one time in his/her life and, at
>>>> another
>>>> time, weigh more but not be overweight. If the dog is not overweight 
>>>> and
>>>> the
>>>> harness does not fit, then your friend needs to insist that the school
>>>> give
>>>> her a harness that fits. Alternatively, she can purchase one from
>>>> somewhere
>>>> else. Is this the first guide dog that your friend has had?
>>>>
>>>> Nicole and Lexia
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>>> Carcione
>>>> via nagdu
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:04 AM
>>>> To: Abigail Bolling; NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>>>> Guide
>>>> Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] weight question
>>>>
>>>> Hi Abby.
>>>> 4 cups seems like a lot, but I have, and prefer, smallish dogs, around
>>>> 60
>>>> pounds or less.  Ben is eating 2 cups of Canidae a day, and his
>>>> predecessor
>>>> Echo did the same.
>>>>
>>>> I have been feeding Cannidae for All Life Stages for several years, and
>>>> have
>>>> been happy with it.  However, in his old age, it doesn't seem to agree
>>>> with
>>>> Ben as well as it used to, so I am experimenting with grain-free foods,
>>>> starting with Great Life Grain-free Chicken.
>>>>
>>>> If you search the archives for dogfood, you will find much discussion 
>>>> on
>>>> this topic, with many opinions.
>>>>
>>>> Did you explain to your friend how to check her dog's weight?
>>>> Sometimes,
>>>> we
>>>> teach each other more than our schools do.  The methods I learned were
>>>> to
>>>> see if I could feel the ribs with gentle pressure, and if the dog has a
>>>> definite waist--a tucked-up belly.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Abigail Bolling via nagdu" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:57 AM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] weight question
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>> So there are actually two questions here!
>>>>> Jada is on a food called Diamond Natural. She is getting almost 4 cups
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>> food a day, and seems to be sluggish but losing weight. do you guys
>>>>> think
>>>>>
>>>>> it is time to switch her to a diferent food? If so, which food should 
>>>>> I
>>>>> go
>>>>
>>>>> for? I've had her on imes, and didn't like all the recalls the food
>>>>> got.
>>>>> Purina didn't agree with her coat. and she didn't seem to have much
>>>>> energy
>>>>
>>>>> when on that food.
>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Another question is that my friend is a grad from Leader and she has
>>>>> had
>>>>> her dog for about a year or so. Her golden is about 5 pounds
>>>>> overweight,
>>>>> but was issued with a labrador harmess, so he is having trouble
>>>>> breatheing
>>>>
>>>>> while walking.
>>>>> Leader told her that if her dog is that much over weight that they
>>>>> would
>>>>> take him from her.
>>>>> My first reaction to this prospect was that it was utterly ridiculous.
>>>>> When I asked my friend what her pups target weight was, she didn't
>>>>> know.
>>>>> When I asked her how often she physically checked his weight, she said
>>>>> she
>>>>
>>>>> didn't know how.
>>>>> Are there any recent leader grads who ma have these same issues? The
>>>>> only
>>>>>
>>>>> way I was able to conclude that the dog is only five pounds over is
>>>>> because my friend knew that he was 67 pounds when she got him, and now
>>>>> he
>>>>>
>>>>> is 72.
>>>>> The dog's belly strap is losened to the max, but is still way too
>>>>> tight.
>>>>> Any way to help the dogs comfort level until a field rep can suplly my
>>>>> friend with a new belly strap?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all for reading my posts! :)
>>>>> Abby and sleepy Jada
>>>>> Abigail Bolling
>>>>> Wright State University: Social Work
>>>>>
>>>>> "Keep a smile on your face and a song in your heart, and just let the
>>>>> music play." (Julie Anderson Diamond)
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Raven
>>> "if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
>>> http://dogtorj.com
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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-- 
Raven
"if God didn't make it, don't eat it." - John B. Symes, D.V.M.
http://dogtorj.com

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