[nagdu] Going to Prison.

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Tue Aug 11 22:45:14 UTC 2015 

All the could haves and might haves prove that you have absolutely no solid data to back up your particular prejudice. Of course, that really is how most prejudices work, isn't it? Clearly it works, and clearly the dogs have enough, or the programs wouldn't exist anymore. Clearly they are successful because they've been around for at least 20 years. From what I've read of most of these programs, nonviolent offenders are the rule; if indeed this child murderer really did raise a service dog puppy, everything I've read suggests that she is the exception, not the rule. 

BTW, I'm raising a puppy now. Mind you, I'm raising her for my own use, but it's interesting. She hasn't had nearly the amount of public exposure yet that I thought she would. Yet, what exposure she does have, she is handling very well indeed. She rode the bus like a pro when we went downtown a couple weeks ago. While exposure to a lot of situations is important, more important still is the lesson that your dog learns: if something unexpected comes up, your dog can turn to you as its safe haven, knowing and trusting that you've got his/her back. That lesson, much more than any other, that your dog looks out for you and that you look out for your dog, is the one ultimate lesson your dog *must* learn. After all, there is no way on God's green (ahem. ... Maybe a little less green) earth that *any* puppy raiser will be able to expose your dog to every kind of situation s/he will encounter. They all do their best though, and some dogs get exposed to things other dogs would never see in the rest of its lifetime. I'm fairly sure, for instance, that none of my dogs flew on an airplane before I got them, but they have all been excellent travelers. I believe that this is because they learned the one overriding valuable lesson that all service dogs must learn: that they watch out for you, they protect you, and you watch out for and protect them. Trust is, indeed, a two-way street. Doesn't work any other way. What better way to teach such a bond than a 24/7 caregiver, in much the same way the puppy's new disabled partner will be? 

But I could be wrong.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name




> On Aug 11, 2015, at 5:12 PM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sherry:
> 
> That is exactly what I am talking about.  It would break my heart to think 
> of a a violent offender having their hands on my sweet gentle golden.  Also, 
> as I said, I would be very concerned that only weekend exposure to normal 
> home life wouldn't be enough for the puppy.  Anyone who has raised a future 
> guide dog will tell you that they are expected to take the puppy to as many 
> types of places as possible so the puppy will grow into a confident dog 
> comfortable with all the outside noises and activities.  Being locked up in 
> a prison all week doesn't give the puppy the chance to live in a normal 
> house and experience normal life.  Having them taken home on weekends isn't 
> enough.  Another concern is the harsh prison atmosphere could have a very 
> negative effect on some of the more sensitive dogs.  I had heard that Pilot 
> had some dogs raised in a prison so, I made sure to ask before I got Eva to 
> be sure she wasn't from the prison program .
> 
> Sandra and Eva
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Sherry Gomes via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:45 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Sherry Gomes
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> I know one woman who got a dog raised in a prison. She was told in advance
> and asked if she would mind. She was given a brief explanation of the reason
> the raiser was in prison and it wasn't for anything like murder. she
> accepted the dog and that dog was sharp as could be and very very sweet.
> Having said that, some years ago I read a book called Small sacrifices, by
> ann Rule. It was the Diane downs story. Downs murdered one of her three
> children and tried to murder the others, injuring them severely. When the
> author met with Downs in prison, she was raising a service dog puppy. Downs
> showed no remorse for what she did to her own children. It frankly sickened
> me that she could murder her children in cold blood with no remorse at all
> and yet had the privilege of raising a puppy. It really scarred me, and I
> wouldn't want a dog raised in prison if there was any chance it was raised
> by someone like Downs. If dogs are raised in prison by nonviolent offenders
> that would be different for me, but small sacrifices did me in emotionally.
> 
> Sherry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of melissa R green
> via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 12:20 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: melissa R green
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> I believe that GDF is also
> having some dogs from a
> prison.  I am sure it is a
> very strict screening process
> for the prisoners to qualify
> for the program.  I am all for
> providing a second chance,
> because I know that people
> make mistakes.
> 
> Warmly,
> Melissa R. Green and Pj
> It is 'where we are' that
> should make all the
> difference, whether we believe
> we belong there or not.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
> rg] On Behalf Of Becky
> Frankeberger via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015
> 9:52 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Cc: Becky Frankeberger
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> Some of Pilot's most obedient
> dogs were raised at Marysville
> Prison for women, I believe.
> 
> I am not sure any more how
> many schools are still using
> prison raised dogs.
> Do any of you know if your
> school is availing themselves
> of the fine prison raised
> dogs? I think Southeastern is
> and Pilot.
> 
> Becky
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
> rg] On Behalf Of S L Johnson
> via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015
> 6:29 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: S L Johnson
> <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> I would not accept a dog that
> had been raised in a prison.
> I would be concerned that the
> dog hadn't been exposed to
> everyday life in a normal home
> environment, children playing,
> noisy traffic etc...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: larry d keeler via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015
> 11:01 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Cc: larry d keeler
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> And, lets not forget! Some
> prisoners may have had a hand
> in training some of our
> dogs!Which is a great thing
> both for them and us! Not
> saying or judging the prison
> system but, like anything else
> it has holes in it. But, if
> they can help train dogs and
> get comfort from it, well the
> better for them!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
> rg] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015
> 10:43 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> Sandra, I don't really quite
> get the hostility. Many have
> made good points about this
> issue already. I will confirm
> what Julie has said. This is a
> women's prison where there is
> a prison ministry that one of
> my friends from seminary runs,
> and it is very successful. I
> know someone there who really
> should not be, and there are
> probably countless others who
> have learned from their
> errors. These are people, too,
> and where there is life there
> is hope for change and
> rebirth. As for my innocent
> dog, no matter what my point
> for going is, his innocence
> wouldn't be compromised by the
> visit to the prison.
> For him it is an opportunity
> to work, end of story, and he
> will gladly blaze the trail
> with me if he is able to do
> so.
> 
> Best,
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
> rg] On Behalf Of S L Johnson
> via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015
> 6:02 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: S L Johnson
> <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> I would never consider
> visiting  prison with or
> without my dog.  They are
> criminals and do not deserve
> to even look at my dog.  Keep
> your poor innocent dog away
> from the criminals.  Why
> should you feel sorry for
> someone
> 
> who committed a crime?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherry Gomes via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015
> 6:52 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Cc: Sherry Gomes ; 'Julie J.'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> The times I took my dog with
> me into prisons, it was
> emotional for the inmates, but
> they thanked me repeatedly and
> profusely for doing it. At San
> Quentin, when I went with my
> cousin to visit her husband,
> one time a woman came up to me
> and asked if her husband could
> pet my dog. She told me he
> hadn't seen a dog in fifteen
> years. He was in prison for
> life. I didn't ask why. I
> allowed him to pet my dog, and
> he cried and cried and thanked
> me over and over. It meant a
> lot to him to be able to pet a
> dog. The times I went with my
> singing group, nobody asked to
> pet my dog, but many inmates
> commented on her and how much
> they loved seeing her.
> 
> Sherry
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.o
> rg] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
> nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015
> 4:43 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie J.
> <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> I don't know about entering a
> prison with a guide.  In my
> last job, I used to have a
> couple of inmates from the
> women's prison come and talk
> to the
> class participants.    The
> only issue was that it was
> very emotional for
> some of the inmates.  They may
> not have seen a dog for many
> years.  One lady
> 
> had to give up her dogs when
> she was sentenced.  She didn't
> know if they found homes or
> what happened to them.  Seeing
> my dog reminded her of all
> that pain.  She was in tears
> for most of the 1.5 hours they
> were there.
> 
> I'm not saying to leave your
> guide behind, but just to  be
> aware that the
> presence of a dog could be an
> emotional issue.   It could be
> a positive
> thing or not, no way to know
> beforehand.  Of course none of
> this has anything what-so-ever
> to do with your legal rights
> in this situation.
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind
> Woman's Quest to Train her Own
> Guide Dog is now available!
> Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QX
> ZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cindy Ray via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015
> 5:25 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the
> National Association of Guide
> Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: [nagdu] Going to
> Prison.
> 
> I am going to go to the
> women's pennitentury to help
> with a worship service.
> I am wondering about the dog,
> whether he will be welcome
> there. I did take a dog with
> me to the Shawnee County Jail
> in Topeka, Kansas, but since
> the minister isn't sure I can
> bring the dog, she is asking
> someone. I need to be
> prepared.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> 
> cindyray at gmail.com
> <mailto:cindyray at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
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