[nagdu] Freedom of speech (was Re: Going to Prison.)

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Wed Aug 12 01:26:03 UTC 2015 

I love how everyone gets this wrong.

Here's what the First Amendment says:

Congress shall make no law (Emphasis added) respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That's pretty clear. It says that Congress shall make no law. Meaning the government may not prohibit the free exercise of speech or religion or of the press. That's all it says. NFBNet can prohibit any speech it likes. Free speech doesn't mean that anyone is obligated to give you a platform. Freedom of speech also means freedom of speech for people to call down your free speech. Or, put another way, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences of your speech. 

I also love how people seem to think that telling us how old they are or how long they've walked the earth somehow magically imbues them with some amazing insight, maturity, good judgment, knowledge, status, or deference. Really, nobody cares how old you are. You want to be treated with respect and as a mature adult? Act respectfully and like a mature adult. It's really pretty simple. Simple does not, however, necessarily mean easy. 
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: buddy at brannan.name




> On Aug 11, 2015, at 8:55 PM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve, ,
> 
> Yes, you were very rude.  The last I knew this is a free country and we do 
> have freedom of the press and freedom of speech.  We all are entitled to our 
> individual opinions.  I am sixty years old and have been a successful guide 
> dog user for forty years.  I am just as aware of what is going on and what I 
> want in my life as any of the rest of you so, keep your personal opinion of 
> what I have to say to yourself.  I personally have no respect for anyone who 
> commits a crime and personally don't want them having anything to do with my 
> guide dog and, that is my right as a citizen of the United States.  If we 
> can't share different opinions and ideas, this would be a very dull world.
> 
> Sandra and Eva
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Steven Johnson via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 8:24 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Steven Johnson
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> Unfortunately, you really need more education on how the correctional dog
> programs work.  These dogs are not solely confined to the correctional
> facility with the inmates.  In fact, they have exposure to the same things
> that a dog raised by a non-correctional dog does.  In the case of dogs
> raised through the Correctional systems with Leader Dogs, they work closely
> with Lion members who have the dogs on weekends and other days to give them
> the same exposure, social, and wide variety of experiences the same way
> other guides are raised.  In fact, sometimes, these dogs are more
> disciplined, but in the end of course, it all comes back to the handler.
> 
> I know I am going to sound rude, but you might want to take a couple of
> steps back before you start making such harsh and offensive statements.  You
> seem to be a person who is very isolated from the real world that is around
> you...just my observation from this post and many past  posts.  Sometimes,
> your responses seem reactive.  Step back, read a few responses and think
> about making an opinion on what you learn, and not on what you don't know.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
> nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 8:29 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: S L Johnson
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> I would not accept a dog that had been raised in a prison.  I would be
> concerned that the dog hadn't been exposed to everyday life in a normal home
> environment, children playing, noisy traffic etc...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: larry d keeler via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 11:01 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: larry d keeler
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> And, lets not forget! Some prisoners may have had a hand in training some of
> our dogs!Which is a great thing both for them and us! Not saying or judging
> the prison system but, like anything else it has holes in it. But, if they
> can help train dogs and get comfort from it, well the better for them!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cindy Ray via
> nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 10:43 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> Sandra, I don't really quite get the hostility. Many have made good points
> about this issue already. I will confirm what Julie has said. This is a
> women's prison where there is a prison ministry that one of my friends from
> seminary runs, and it is very successful. I know someone there who really
> should not be, and there are probably countless others who have learned from
> their errors. These are people, too, and where there is life there is hope
> for change and rebirth. As for my innocent dog, no matter what my point for
> going is, his innocence wouldn't be compromised by the visit to the prison.
> For him it is an opportunity to work, end of story, and he will gladly blaze
> the trail with me if he is able to do so.
> 
> Best,
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
> nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 6:02 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: S L Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> I would never consider visiting  prison with or without my dog.  They are
> criminals and do not deserve to even look at my dog.  Keep your poor
> innocent dog away from the criminals.  Why should you feel sorry for someone
> 
> who committed a crime?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherry Gomes via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 6:52 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Sherry Gomes ; 'Julie J.'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> The times I took my dog with me into prisons, it was emotional for the
> inmates, but they thanked me repeatedly and profusely for doing it. At San
> Quentin, when I went with my cousin to visit her husband, one time a woman
> came up to me and asked if her husband could pet my dog. She told me he
> hadn't seen a dog in fifteen years. He was in prison for life. I didn't ask
> why. I allowed him to pet my dog, and he cried and cried and thanked me over
> and over. It meant a lot to him to be able to pet a dog. The times I went
> with my singing group, nobody asked to pet my dog, but many inmates
> commented on her and how much they loved seeing her.
> 
> Sherry
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J. via
> nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 4:43 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Julie J. <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> I don't know about entering a prison with a guide.  In my last job, I used
> to have a couple of inmates from the women's prison come and talk to the
> class participants.    The only issue was that it was very emotional for
> some of the inmates.  They may not have seen a dog for many years.  One lady
> 
> had to give up her dogs when she was sentenced.  She didn't know if they
> found homes or what happened to them.  Seeing my dog reminded her of all
> that pain.  She was in tears for most of the 1.5 hours they were there.
> 
> I'm not saying to leave your guide behind, but just to  be aware that the
> presence of a dog could be an emotional issue.   It could be a positive
> thing or not, no way to know beforehand.  Of course none of this has
> anything what-so-ever to do with your legal rights in this situation.
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
> available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cindy Ray via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 5:25 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Cindy Ray
> Subject: [nagdu] Going to Prison.
> 
> I am going to go to the women's pennitentury to help with a worship service.
> I am wondering about the dog, whether he will be welcome there. I did take a
> dog with me to the Shawnee County Jail in Topeka, Kansas, but since the
> minister isn't sure I can bring the dog, she is asking someone. I need to be
> prepared.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cindy Lou Ray
> 
> cindyray at gmail.com <mailto:cindyray at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
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