[nagdu] Arbitrary restrictions on playing with future guide dogs

Wed Aug 12 13:38:36 UTC 2015

Dogs will fetch anything you throw for them once they learn to fetch. I am not certain Raven's question was that narrow. If you are teaching a dog a playing or fetching behavior, no matter its age, it needs to be supervised in that activity. If you aren't supervising, you aren't training. You soon come to know a dog and its limits and then you act accordingly. I believe the younger they are the more quickly they learn, though this could be my ignorance showing. I doubt there is any totally correct answer here because each dog iss different just as each of us is. We wouldn't train all children to do the same things or not to. We base the training on the kids. Most dogs understand the difference between work time and play time I think, and most dogs are eager to please. That's one of the reasons I think they can be trained in the first place.
Cindy

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vivianna via nagdu
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 8:31 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Vivianna <irishana at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Arbitrary restrictions on playing with future guide dogs

the difference here is, Raven is talking about puppies.  eight week old puppies.
and, i most certainly believe that the school is correct in not getting puppies focused on balls and ripping up toys.
it’s better to be safe than end up with more dogs that are obsessed.
when you get your fully trained dog, you do with it as you choose.
but, in general, for puppies, it’s a totally different situation.
this woman that i saw with the ball obsessed dog.  i’m certain that, if she would have known what would happen, would never have given that dog a ball.  also, i am certain that the dog was taught to fetch balls when it was a pup.  that dog loved balls from the first moment the handler gave her one.
and, sorry, but, the (fetch) command that was taught by the schools is most certainly different than playing ball.  the dog was to fetch a block of wood, or some keys, or something of the sort.  this is completely different than playing with toys.

Vivianna

> On Aug 12, 2015, at 6:10 AM, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I let my dogs play with whatever they can handle.  Monty has aged out of his hard chewing, so he can have stuffed toys, balls, rope toys...just about anything.  Jetta still likes to destroy toys, so she is limited to hard rubber things for now.  I'm not opposed to her having other toys at some point if she is able.
> 
> I also play with my dogs with tennis balls, although they require supervision because they like to eat the fuzz.  If we pass by tennis courts and people are playing, Monty will glance at them, but it doesn't interfere with his work.  I don't think Jetta even glances or not that I've noticed.
> 
> I play tug games with them.  I think it's important to have rules.  With tug the rule is that the toy is mine and if I say give, I mean give.  If the dog gets too rowdy I have them give me the toy and we take a break.  I have a hard time with tug because of my hands so we don't play it as much anymore.
> 
> Monty plays Frisbee.  It is one of his most favorite things.  Once the neighbor dog wandered over to play too.  I took turns, throwing it for one dog then the other.  They both had a good time.  Yes, this was in the front yard, no leash and no fence and the neighbor dog was never confined that I know of.  I have not played Frisbee with Jetta since she is not ready for unfenced areas with no leash.
> 
> I play fetch with both of them nearly daily.  I have played fetch with every dog I've ever had.  Some of them were more into it than others, but they all played fetch to some degree.  I haven't noticed any connection between playing fetch and chasing after small furry things.  The dogs used at guide dog schools should not have a high prey drive anyway.  Fetching and prey drive are two separate things.  Retrievers were bred to retrieve, not chase after small furry things via their prey drive.  Hunters do not want maimed or half eaten birds.  They want to shoot something and have the dog calmly and accurately retrieve it, returning it in the same condition they found it.  A dog with a super intense prey drive can't do that.  There is a vast difference between a hunting dog and a dog who hunts.  One is trained to work with humans calmly and efficiently.  The other is eating.
> 
> I think what it really comes down to is knowing what your particular dog can handle.  If you don't have a lot of experience with dogs, you simply may not know.  In the case of puppy raisers, I suspect the rules are in place so the puppy raisers don't have to be left wondering if their puppy is okay with a particular type of toy.  It is easier to make a rule of no tug toys than it is to provide training on dog behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message----- From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 11:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Arbitrary restrictions on playing with future 
> guide dogs
> 
> But I could use the same argument for my guide dog who has a dog 
> distraction. Would it make sense to say that his dog distraction comes 
> from being around other dogs? When they're born, they're around other 
> dogs for 7 to 12 weeks, depending on when the puppy is returned to the 
> school and given to a raiser. After that, they are around other dogs 
> for training classes, playdates, etc.
> 
> I'm not sure if dogs' different obsessions and distractions stem from 
> games and toys they've been exposed to. Every dog has different levels 
> and types of instinct in them, and different dogs prefer some games 
> and toys over others. I guess I haven't found any factors yet that 
> bring me to the conclusion that this is in fact a result of games 
> played during puppyhood, as opposed to something that simply varies 
> from dog to dog and is a part of individual personalities.
> 
> Also, if a person doesn't play fetch or tug with their dog, how else 
> do they play together? Dogs typically like to play chase as well, but 
> I don't think people are playing that game with their dogs every time 
> they play together. I'm asking sincerely. I admit I am far more 
> familiar with pet dog training than service dog training.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
> 
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you 
> have or what you do.
> 
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
> 
> On 8/11/15, Vivianna via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> i am just getting her to play ball.  she is 6 years old and, it is 
> very obvious that she was not taught how to play ball, which is just 
> fine with me.  we can walk past any park with no problems.
>> i think it does depend on the dog but, why create a potential problem for a dog that would do fine without becoming obsessed.
>> 
>> Vivianna
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