[nagdu] My Thoughts and Perspective on theResolution concerning Ownership

Wed Aug 19 04:37:08 UTC 2015

Raven, I do agree. In my case I did have ownership of my dog. With
first dog all was peaches and cream. I had some disagreements with my
family to whom he was retired but that was during retirement and I
chose to make peace with it. I did vow NOT to retire another dog to
them though because I could not stand to see him suffer. I have stated
many times on list how I felt about him being overweight, being put
outside, and not given his meds regularly. Especially since when I got
him and was living with them, they stayed on top of me to make sure I
did obedience or grooming or feeding, and that's another cultural
story. Well, when I had got my second dog she was a female golden and
they preferred a male Lab like my first. So quite naturally she was
completely different and I don't feel like she was ever accepted. I
was met with many frustrations when coming to live with my mom and her
husband by force and by force I had to put her outdoors. Having full
ownership saved me in this respect, though I took awhile to share with
folks on list outright due to being stigmatized and judged.
Thankfully,  I didn't receive that. And yes I did keep in contact with
the school and they were fully aware of what had happened and my
feelings surrounding it all. I was going through a messy divorce and
custody battle which has ended but yet it hasn't since my ex wants to
argue about me supporting them financially and visiting which is not
possible since I don't have a job and live in this rural area on $733
per month. My Lab was a steady predicatable handsome mellow yellow
fellow and she was a beautiful strong fast bullheaded golden. I did
appreciate having her for emotional support and I do miss her muchly
today. She died a year ago and now I'm alone. Her condition was just
the opposite. She kept losing weight and if you didn't know you'd
think I was starving her. That wasn't the case at all. Anyway I shared
because I think in the future I might give a school with stipulations
a chance as knowing that they are coming out would possibly deter
malice on the part of others, including family and close friends. If
need be they could hit up the instructor with questions and concerns.
As I said, I don't love it because it makes me feel devalued and
unnecessarily humbled but I see the flip side and honestly, I was
thinking of trying out a different program before I  went back for my
second dog. I have worked so hard to get out of the rut that others
call life for me, and it's hard and crushing when others put their
foot on your neck just to do it without any convincing evidence to do
so. Sandra, I'm so so sorry this happened to you. I'm glad you had the
courage to share though. That is how I feel too. If I can work a dog
successfully regardless of my health condition, I should be allowed to
exercise my privilege and right to do so regardless of breed, gender,
school, whatever. If an O and M instructor and guide dog instructor
says I'm safe, I'm safe. I don't know why any others should have
input. I don't know why my family reacted like this, and surely there
are others who have had this where suddenly dog can't go hear and
can't go there, or oh the dog hair, and on and on. Marian, that is
true too what you say about grads worrying about being rejected at
other schools due to a negative report from the previous school.
That's unfair especially if it has nothing to do with the graduate's
working relationship and care of the dog. Like that guy raven spoke
about needing help with his dog's health. That's like them saying,
"Hey we just want you to do your part and we just don't have to be
held accountable. We're exempt from any and everything. We call the
shots." Wow. I don't think such an ending can ever be gotten over. I
feel much the same way Sandra about losing my dog, and yes, my
children who were snatched from me without cause and strong evidence.
I think it was  a male chauvinist thing really. And basicly, I too,
have no recourse where the children are concerned because I have no
money, and I was told once by someone that the person holding the
purse strings holds the power. I also didn't have pictures and videos.
I hope when I apply again, this trauma has no bearing on my
consideration at my current school or any other I might apply too. I
would like to see the contracts published on the websites for public
viewing.

On 8/18/15, Jennifer Woods via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Wow Sandra that sounds like a very traumatic experience. Thank you for
> Sharing your Experience with us.
>
> I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
> Jennifer
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 14, 2015, at 2:58 PM, S L Johnson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
> Marion:
>
> You cannot release any confidential details of schools taking dogs away but,
>
> I can tell my own personal story.  I don['t usually discuss this very
> traumatic experience but, I think it is important to let people on this list
>
> know why we want unconditional ownership from all the guide dog schools.  I
>
> know this happens because it happened to me in 1976 when a guide dog school
>
> found out from someone that I'd been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.  The
>
> dog was still quite new and still quite young.  He was a very fast strong
> male golden.  At first he was much too strong and fast for me.  I did fall
> with him a lot but gradually things got better.  Then, Suddenly a few months
>
> later, without warning a trainer showed up demanding that I give him my dog.
>
> I immediately faxed the contract to my family's lawyer and he said that
> because of the contract they made me sign, I had to give them my dog.
> doctors and physical therapists helped me fight to get him back and I've
> been a guide dog user for the past forty years.  You never forget the trauma
>
> of having your dog suddenly unexpectedly snatched from you.  On that cold
> December day, I felt helpless and lost with no rights.  Even after I got him
>
> back, I was always afraid they would take him again.  Once he retired, I
> went to schools who gave ownership.  I never want to be afraid of having my
>
> dog taken just because I have a medical condition.  As long as I can prove
> that I can work a dog safely and successfully , then the school should not
> have anything to say.  So, for those of you who think ownership is no big
> deal, think of how you would feel to have your school show up and take your
>
> dog without any warning or reason.  I hope this resolution will pass some
> day.
>
> Sandra and Eva
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marion Gwizdala via nagdu
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:44 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Marion Gwizdala
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] My Thoughts and Perspective on theResolution concerning
>
> Ownership
>
> Steve,
>
> The two cannot exist simultaneously. I cannot offer evidence when
> that evidence is protected by confidentiality except by a court order. We
> are in a Catch 22 with no way to resolve the issue. The only resolution is
> for those affected to come forward and the guide dog training programs have
> the upper hand in this.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steven Johnson
> via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 6:13 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Steven Johnson
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] My Thoughts and Perspective on the Resolution
> concerning Ownership
>
> We are not asking you to disclose information about the situations, but at
> least back it up with some qualitative evidence as arbitrary as it is.
>
> Thank you,
> Steve Johnson
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
> via nagdu
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2015 5:09 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'; 'New
> York Association of Guide Dog Users'; New Jersey Association of Guide Dog
> Users; coagdu at nfbnet.org; 'Florida Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Cc: Marion Gwizdala
> Subject: [nagdu] My Thoughts and Perspective on the Resolution concerning
> Ownership
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
>                Since I disabled mail delivery while I was at convention, I
> have not read all the messages concerning the resolution for which I was a
> proponent. I have, however, received a number of telephone calls both in
> favor and opposition of the resolution. I would like to offer my
> perspective
> on this issue.
>
>
>
>                As most of you know, I am in favor of training programs
> transferring unconditional ownership to the consumer upon completion of
> training. As the NAGDU president, I have fielded a number of calls from
> guide dog users who have either been threatened with or have had their dogs
> removed without cause and without due process. The unfortunate response I
> have for them is that there is nothing that can be done to protect their
> rights if they do not own their dogs. I realize that most of you will say
> your training program would never do such a thing without just cause;
> however, the fact is that it happens and you will likely never hear about
> it. It is not up to me to tell you about these cases, as it is protected by
> my ethical code of confidentiality. It is also sadly true that the people
> to
> whom this happens will likely never tell the list either, because they fear
> retaliation in the form of a negative report that could impact their
> application to another program.
>
>
>
>                The one thing I regret during the consideration of this
> resolution is that I failed to ask for the whole resolution to be read. For
> those who did not attend the convention, with twenty-nine resolutions being
> considered, the chair chose to only read the resolved section of the
> resolution to save time unless someone asked for a reading of the whole
> resolution. I don't know if the results would have been any different but
> there may have at least been a little more awareness of the purpose of the
> resolution. After all, this was my primary purpose in introducing this
> measure.
>
>
>
>                Though I am disappointed the convention chose to not pass
> this resolution, the other purpose for introducing it was to hear from the
> membership in a democratic forum. As president of this Association, I serve
> at the pleasure of the membership and am charged with representing their
> interests. This is true of each member of the Board of Directors, as well.
> My personal belief is that ownership affords certain protections and will
> always express this opinion; however, my personal agenda is not that of the
> membership. My duty is to express the will of the membership and to be
> their
> voice.
>
>
>
> As for this resolution being introduced again, it may very well be. At this
> time, though, I have no plan to do so. We have a great deal of work to do
> and I am dedicated to the work, not my agenda. There is much more that
> unites us than divides us. We may not agree on the issue of ownership but
> we
> agree we must have the right to full and equal access to those places the
> public is invited and we are creating collaborative relationships with the
> restaurant, lodging, health care, taxicab, and zoo industries to remove the
> barriers we face. I trust you will stand with us as we open the doors to
> full participation in society on terms of equality. In the words of Dr.
> Kenneth Jernigan, "come! Join me on the barricades and we will make it all
> come true!"
>
>
>
> Fraternally yours,
>
>
>
> Marion Gwizdala, President
>
> National Association of Guide Dog Users Inc.
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (813) 626-2789
>
> (888) 624-3841 (Hotline)
>
> President at nagdu.org
>
> http://www.nagdu.org
>
>
>
> High expectations create unlimited potential for the blind!
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Danielle

Email: singingmywayin at gmail.com